Here is the scoop. 3 wires in the electrical box Black, White, Copper Ground. Fan has four wires Green, Black, Black w/White tracer, White. I wired the green to the copper ground wire. White to White and Black and Black w/White tracer to Black. There is a single wall switch.
When I turn the power on from the breaker the fan and light turns on even if the wall switch is on off. As soon as I turn the wall switch to on I pop the breaker. Any ideas???
To add to red54's comments:
This is what I believe you have:
- one source in the ceiling box (black & white)
- one donwline circuit in ceiling box going to another wall/ceiling box (black&white)
- on switch wire in ceiling box coming from your wall switch (black & white) -- this is the white wire which will be hot when the switch is truned on
Here's how it should be connected:
- all 3 blacks in ceiling box connected together -- no other wires in this bundle
- white wire (which is hot when switched) coming from switch connects to the black/blackwhite fan wires
- connect all reamining white wires together in bundle
- connect all ground wires together
It's that simple. Trick is figuring out, of the three cables in the ceiling box, which is source, which is downline, which is switch.
Maybe red54's procedure can help you figure that out.
YOU MUST HAVE ANOTHER white wire or somthing missing..???? are there pull chains on the fan?? if the black & white wires in box are in the same cable....your wiring is correct !!!!!! problem could be a grounded terminal or load wire in wall switch box.......or 3-way wall switch wired wrong....
With everything appearing to be correct,(as it does)...especially with yhe fact that the wall switch previsely existed and functioned a light.....there can only be one covclusion......Put the fan back in the BOX and return it ,,,IT's DEFECTIVE !!!!!!!!!
NOIW WERE TALKING more than two wires in the ceiling box..???? in oder to fix your problem I must know of all the wires.....it now sounds to me with NO DOUBT one of your WHITE wires IS HOT ..you have 2 feeds at your cieling box.....most times if you have 2 SWITCHES (wall) ...Meaning you can turn a light ON or OFF entering a room from one doorway or another ....two seperate switches (wall) to operate one light(or fan)...................its called a three-way switch hook up ,one of your White wires will be HOT.....WHEN someone does this hook up it's leagle to have a hot white wire though it should be marked in some way............Anyhow the symptons you have no DOUBT INDICATE you wave a hot white wire !!!!!!!!!! you took apart more wires in that ceiling box than you think , my guess is the old fan had 2 white wires feeding it before..... ????? Which white wire is HOT??????
your going to need away to test voltage.................or to start remove (WITH POWER OFF AT YHE BREAKER) one of the 3 white wires from the ceiling box disconnect it from the fan...leave the other two connected...turn on breaker ? what is your sympton? REPEAT this with each of the WHITE wires...When you hit a condition where the breaker doesn't trip and the fan doesn't run until you turn your wall switch on ..CALL ME,....
white wire #3 is your HOT WHITE one....you did what i asked backwards but I can work with this..........connect your fan back up like you origanilly had EXCEPT FOR white wire #3....tape or wire nut it up so it dosen't ground out.....now it should work...the next problem is what is not working .....?????
happy to make your DAY (it makes mine too.) I love trouble shooting.....but with electrical, there is always the danger of shock ...have to be carefull with doing things with VOLTS ON and VOLTS off. ..its harder with volts off .....Please tell FIX -YA of your Gratitude .......THANKS
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I am a novice at this nope I do not own a voltmeter. All I know is the light that was there worked fine before I tried to hook up this fan.
Yes there are pull chains. One for the fan one for the light.
Yes the three wires black/black w/white tracer/white are all bundled together.
I just wanted to wire this so that power would come from the wall switch to the fan and from the fan I would control the motor and lights.
Guys thanks for the ideas. Still no go. I pulled the black wire from the fan and just wired in the light. When I hit the breaker the light goes on with the wall switch off. I then reversed what I did and pulled the light wire and just wired the fan. Same thing happened the fan went on when I hit the breaker with the wall switch still on off. I pulled the wall switch and everything was tight. Just three wires there Black/White/Copper wire.
Any chance that maybe the wall switch **** the bed at the same time I decided to hook up the fan? This is getting weird.
Well the problem has to be in the wiring. I took the old fan and hooked it up the same way and it does the same thing. When I turn on the breaker it works even with the light switch in the off position. If I turn the light switch to on then the breaker trips.
So now what? I checked the wires as far back as I could and I do not see any break in the wires. I believe the power goes from the light switch to the ceiling light (where I am trying to put the fan in) then over to a light switch in the closet.
Could you please explain the short to ground that you mentioned. What else should I be looking for.
Thanks again for all your help.
I just pulled the light switch away from the wall. It does the same thing. Circuit breaker on with light switch off and the power comes on. Turn light switch off breaker trips.......
OK I am worn out on this for today. Tomorrow I will disengage the ground wires and yes the box is grounded and just try hooking it back up without the ground.
Well I took a break and tackled it again. I removed the ground from the ceiling fan box. Disconnected the two other ground wires.
All I have now is the three white wires from the ceiling connected to the white wire of the fan and the three black wires from the ceiling connected to the black and black with white tracer from the fan.
Hit the breaker switch and once again with the light switch in the off position I get power to the fan and light. What do you think? Yes I insured that no part of the ground wires were touching.
OK this is what I found once hooked up turned on breaker:
White wire #1 hooked to fan : Nothing
White wire #2 hooked to fan: Nothing
White wire #3 hooked to fan: Power as soon as breaker is on but
wall switch in off position
White wire #1&2 hooked to fan: Nothing
"- all 3 blacks in ceiling box connected together -- no other wires in this bundle
- white wire (which is hot when switched) coming from switch connects to the black/blackwhite fan wires
- connect all reamining white wires together in bundle
- connect all ground wires together"
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. That did it. All lights and fan work. You made my day...........
Now we're getting somewhere, I think. This is the first time I've read: 3 white wires from the ceiling and 3 balck wires from the ceiling. The problem is White wires are not always whtie wires.. White wires are used as hot wires (black) in a lot of scenarios -- by code, white wires are supposed to be mrked black when used this way, but codes are for sissies, ya know.
So, now we have something to go on. Forget the grounding theory.
If you did not pull the switch from the wall box before the very first time you hooked up the fan, then the problem almost has to be in the ceiling box.
I would suspect there is a break in the hot wire which is either touching the ground wire or touching the ceiling box (ceiling box should be grounded).
- If you have pulled the wall switch out far enough that you can see that nothing is touching the wall box except insulated wire; and
- you have done the test with the ceiling box (fan disconnected) with all the wires pulled out and separated and touching nothing;
Then next, I would reconnect the fan, except for the ground wire, and disconnect the ground to the celing box and, try again. (This test is using hot & neutral only with no grounding source in the ceiling box (this is where I suspect the problem to be).
Have you done this yet?
Disconnect the fan wires, operate the wall switch -- does breaker still trip? (make sure loose wires are not touching other wires, box, fan, etc.)
A short to ground means a hot wire is bypassing the load (resistance) and going straight to a neutral wire, ground wire, or gronding source (with no resistance in the circuit, max current, tripped breakers)?
Did you try leaving the wall switch hanging out and operate it that way?
A bad wall switch usually doesn't cause shorts -- either work or don't work.
Did you try leaving the wall switch hanging out and operate it that way?
The fan could be defective, but it works when the breaker is flipped and the wall switch is not -- that sounds like a good fan -- I could be wrong.
If you try this, it should determine if fan is causing the short:
Disconnect the fan wires, operate the wall switch -- does breaker still trip? (make sure loose wires are not touching other wires, box, fan, etc.)
I agree with both you and red5.
It sounds like you just removed a working light and properly connected a fan in the ceiling box. But, something has caused the swithed hot in the ceiling box to become hot, with or without switching. This imples something is amiss in the wall box at the switch -- there is a short to ground when the switch is closed.
Did you by chance pull the wall switch from the box and push it back in?
Would you like to try this:
Disconnect the fan wires, operate the wall switch -- does breaker still trip? (make sure loose wires are not touching other wires, box, fan, etc.)
Do you have a voltmeter? If so, unhook the fan wires. Put the voltmeter across the black & white wires wires in the ceiling box, opearte the wall switch and see what readings you get with the voltmeter set to VAC.
This obviously has to be done with the braker on. Are you okay with doing that? There is a shock potential if you don't know how to do this, safely.
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