I need a way to test the pcm for ckp cmp reference signal

in limp mode have vehicle scanned for trouble codes

DTC P0342 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage

Without testing i'd only be guessing , but i'd say you have a wiring problem or bad PCM .

The camshaft position (CMP) sensor works in conjunction with a 1 X reluctor wheel on the camshaft. The powertrain control module (PCM) provides a 12-volt reference to the CMP sensor as well as a low reference and a signal circuit.
As the camshaft rotates, the reluctor wheel interrupts a magnetic field produced by a magnet within the sensor. The sensors internal circuitry detects this and produces a signal which the PCM reads.
The CMP sensor 1 X signal is used by the PCM to determine if the cylinder at top dead center (TDC) is on the firing stroke or the exhaust stroke. The PCM can determine TDC for all cylinders by using the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor 24 X signal alone. The engine will start without a CMP signal as long as the PCM receives the CKP sensor 24 X signal. A slightly longer cranking time may be a symptom of this condition. The system attempts synchronization and looks for an increase in engine speed indicating that the engine started. If the PCM does not detect an increase in engine speed, the PCM assumes that the PCM incorrectly synchronized to the exhaust stroke and re-syncs to the opposite cam position. If the PCM detects that a CMP signal is constantly low, DTC P0342 sets.

This step tests the CMP sensor signal circuit. Applying a voltage causes the CMP sensor high to low and low to high parameter to increase if the circuit and the PCM are operating properly.
Step
Action
Yes
No
Schematic Reference: Engine Controls Schematics
Connector End View Reference: Engine Controls Connector End Views or Powertrain Control Module Connector End Views
1
Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle?
YES - Go to Step 2
NO - Go to Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle
2
Start the engine.
Observe the camshaft position (CMP) sensor high to low and low to high transition parameter with a scan tool.
Does the scan tool parameter increment?
YES - Go to Step 3
NO - Go to Step 4
3
Observe the Freeze Frame/Failure Records for this DTC.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Did the DTC fail this ignition?
YES - Go to Step 4
NO - Go to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
4
Turn OFF the ignition.
Disconnect the CMP sensor.
Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the 12-volt reference circuit of the CMP sensor and a good ground.
Did you measure greater than 9.5 volts?
YES - Go to Step 5
NO - Go to Step 6
5
Start the engine.
Observe the CMP sensor high to low and low to high transition parameters with the scan tool.
Momentarily and repeatedly probe the signal circuit of the CMP sensor with a test lamp that is connected to battery voltage.
Does the CMP sensor high to low and low to high transition counters increment when the test lamp contacts the signal circuit?
YES - Go to Step 8
NO - Go to Step 7
6
Test the 12-volt reference circuit for an open or high resistance. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs.
Did you find and correct the condition?
YES - Go to Step 14
NO - Go to Step 9
7
Test the CMP sensor signal circuit for an open or a short to ground. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs.
Did you find and correct the condition?
YES - Go to Step 14
NO - Go to Step 9
8
Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the CMP sensor. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs.
Did you find and correct the condition?
YES - Go to Step 14
NO - Go to Step 10
9
Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the powertrain control module (PCM). Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs.
Did you find and correct the condition?
YES - Go to Step 14
NO - Go to Step 13
10
Remove the CMP sensor. Refer to Camshaft Position Sensor Replacement.
Visually inspect the CMP sensor for the following conditions:
• Physical damage
• Loose or improper installation
• Wiring routed too close to the secondary ignition components
• The sensor coming in contact with the reluctor ring
• Foreign material passing between the sensor and the reluctor ring
Did you find and correct the condition?
YES - Go to Step 14
NO - Go to Step 11
11
Visually inspect the CMP sensor reluctor ring for the following conditions:
• Physical damage
• Loose or improper installation
• Excessive end play or looseness
Refer to Camshaft and Bearings Cleaning and Inspection.
Did you find and correct the condition?
YES - Go to Step 14
NO - Go to Step 12
12
Replace the CMP sensor. Refer to Camshaft Position Sensor Replacement.
YES - Did you complete the replacement?
NO - Go to Step 14
--
13
Replace the PCM. Refer to Control Module References for replacement, setup, and programming.
YES - Did you complete the replacement?
NO - Go to Step 14
--
14
Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Did the DTC fail this ignition?
YES - Go to Step 2
NO - Go to Step 15
15
Observe the Capture Info with a scan tool.
Are there any DTCs that have not been diagnosed?
YES - Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle
NO - System OK

This is a factory diagnostic flow chart for DTC P0342 . Before replacing a sensor of any kind diagnostic's must be done . We do not assume it is the sensor , especially if the discription has sensor circuit low or high .

the check light glows at ever engine, stall, below about 300 rpm

the engine stalls and the CEL glows, this is 100% normal and is the same deal key on, no started. it only means you have power to the ECU/PCM and is basically happy (rudimentary self tests pass)

there many are reasons (0ver 50 ) to cause a stall.

but of the check light glows running and over 800rpm

800 RPM (got a dash tachometer. next time see what i does)

if the CEL glows engine running that is the warning that there are

errors. not reporting the actual DTCs here, is a big issue.

each DTC has specific cause. 335? DTC?

P0340, 355, 336

and RPM dead cranking,

the ECU will infact set DTC for CKP pulse, 1 in 10 missing

it does that and you can be sure its not fibbing.



on many cars, (on engine option (size) stated, so....????)

1.7L or 2.0L? (auto or manual tranny)

the car dies the instant you loose the CKP, the crank sensor

but not all. on dizzy cars, (distributor) it runs with a cam sensor good.

but id bet yours needs the CKP to run.

if your DTC error decodes to bad CKP then you can believe that.

this assumes you did not lose, 12vdc electr. power to the EFI system.

or the wires are damage to any ckp or cmp sensor.



again, post the DTCs?

if confused or are a real serious DIY (most arent) go to

alldata.com and look, look up your DTC and read the reasons.

they are clear.



i just looked on line, this car even has a CKP learning procedure

do not knee jerk sway any sensor, read the FSM

see the tests to be sure its bad,

see the Vref test at the sensor, if that is bad, the sensor can no work.

eg: 336

Engine running, and the PCM detected the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor \'A\' signal was missing for a short period of time. Note: This trouble code is usually caused by an intermittent fault. Possible Causes:

• * CKP Sensor \'A\' signal circuit is open or shorted to ground



• * CKP Sensor \'A\' signal circuit shorted to VREF or system power



• * CKP Sensor \'A\' is damaged or has failed



• * PCM has failed

try pulling it cleaning the connector and putting it back, (at the least)





alldata.com, or get a real FSM for #1 top, support. from Honda or helm.

Start with looking at scan data on a scan tool , not a code reader
If the PCM detects a MAP sensor signal voltage that is excessively low, DTC P0107 will set.
The PCM calculates a predicted value for the MAP sensor based on throttle position and engine speed. The PCM then compares the predicted value to the actual MAP sensor signal. DTC P0106 will set if the MAP sensor signal is not within the predicted range.
This does not mean the sensor is bad ,could be a wiring problem ,computer etc....
P0306 is a misfire on cylinder # 6 This would be a good one to start with , could ruin the CAT .
The powertrain control module (PCM) uses dual crankshaft position (CKP A and CKP B) sensors in order to determine crankshaft position.
If the PCM determines that CKP sensor A is at fault, DTC P0335 will set. The PCM will switch from angle based mode to Time Based mode B using CKP sensor B signal input.
Diagnostic Aids
If the condition is intermittent, refer to Intermittent Conditions in Symptoms.
Ignition system DTCs set with the ignition in the START position if the starter relay or the starter is inoperative. When the PCM enables starter operation, the PCM also initiates the diagnostic test routines for DTCs P0335, P0340, and P0385. The PCM will not receive signal input from the CKP and CMP sensors if a condition exists which prevents the engine from cranking. When this occurs, the DTCs will set.
If DTC P0615 is set, diagnose DTC P0615 first. If DTC P0335, P0340, and/or P0385 are set and no trouble is found, check for the following conditions:
• Is there a no-crank condition or an intermittent no-crank condition?
• Was an attempt made to crank the engine with the shift lever not in P/N?
Procedures for Selecting Crank Position Sensing Decode Mode
Diagnosing the crankshaft position sensors may require enabling a specific decode mode (Angle, Time A, or Time B). To enable a specific crank decode, using the scan tool, perform the following steps:
• Turn the ignition to the RUN/ON position.
• Select Engine Output Controls.
• Select Crank Position Sensing Decode Mode.
• Select the desired mode (Angle, Time A, or Time B) by pressing SELECT STATE.
• Command the decode mode by pressing COMMAND STATE.
The commanded state remains valid for the current ignition cycle. A specific decode mode can not be commanded with the engine running, or after commanding a desired decode mode. To command a different decode mode, you must cycle the ignition OFF and ON.

DTC P0385
The PCM uses two basic methods of decoding the engine position: Angle Based and Time Based (using either CKP A or CKP B sensor input). During normal operation, the PCM uses the angle based method. In order to operate in this mode, the PCM must receive signal pulses from both CKP sensors. The PCM uses the signal pulses to determine an initial crankshaft position, and to generate MEDRES (24X reference) and LORES (4X reference) signals. Once the initial crank position is determined, the PCM continuously monitors both sensors for valid signal inputs. As long as both signal inputs remain, the PCM will continue to use the angle based mode.
When either CKP signal is lost, the PCM will compare the MEDRES signal to the camshaft position (CMP) sensor signal. If the PCM detects a valid CMP signal, and the MEDRES to CMP signal correlation is correct, the PCM determines that CKP sensor A is at fault. However, if the MEDRES to CMP correlation is incorrect, the PCM determines that CKP sensor B is at fault. If the PCM determines that CKP sensor B is at fault, DTC P0385 will set. The PCM will switch from angle based mode to Time Based Mode A using CKP sensor A signal input.

DTC P0410
Circuit Description
The secondary air injection (AIR) pump used on this vehicle lower tail pipe emissions during start-up. The AIR system consists of the following items:
• The AIR pump
• The shut-off valves
• The vacuum control solenoid valve
• The system hoses and piping
• The AIR relay, the fuses, and the related wiring
The powertrain control module (PCM) uses the AIR relay in order to control the AIR pump. The PCM also controls the AIR vacuum control solenoid valve that supplies vacuum to the AIR shut-off valves. With the AIR system inactive, the AIR shut-off valves prevent air flow in either direction. With the AIR system active, the PCM applies ground to the AIR relay, and the vacuum control solenoid valve. Fresh air flows from the pump, through the system hoses, past the shut-off valves, and into the exhaust stream. The air helps the catalyst quickly reach normal working temperature; thus lowering the tail pipe emissions on a start-up. The PCM tests the AIR system for the following conditions:
• AIR System (Overall system including both banks, and results in DTC P0410)
• AIR System Bank 1 (DTC P1415)
• AIR System Bank 2 (DTC P1416)
• AIR Relay (DTC P0418)
• AIR Vacuum Control Solenoid (DTC P0412)
The PCM runs two tests to diagnose the AIR system: Passive, and Active. Both tests involve a response from the fuel control HO2 sensors (HO2S Bank 1 Sensor 1 and HO2S Bank 2 Sensor 2). If both passive tests pass, the PCM takes no further action. If either part of the passive test fails, or is inconclusive, the PCM initiates the Active tests. If the PCM determines that the HO2S voltages did not respond as expected during the tests, the DTC will set. For further information concerning the AIR System and system tests, refer to

DTC P0506 DTC P0507
The idle air control (IAC) valve is located in the throttle body. The IAC valve consists of a movable pintle, driven by a gear attached to an electric motor called a stepper motor. The IAC valve motor is a 2-phase bi-polar permanent magnet stepper motor that is capable of highly accurate rotation, or movement, every time the polarity of a winding is changed. This change in polarity can be seen when observing a test lamp connected between ground or B+ and an IAC valve circuit while the powertrain control module (PCM) is attempting to change engine RPM. The test lamp will flash on or off each time the polarity is changed. The PCM does not use a physical sensor to determine IAC pintle position, but uses a predicted number of counts, one count represents one change in polarity which equals one step of the stepper motor. The PCM counts the steps that have been commanded in order to determine the IAC pintle position. The PCM uses the IAC valve to control engine idle speed by changing the pintle position in the idle air passage of the throttle body. This varies the air flow around the throttle plate when the throttle is closed. In order to determine the desired position of the IAC pintle at idle or during deceleration, the PCM refers to the following inputs:

Important: Ensure that the engine speed stabilizes with each commanded RPM change in order to determine if engine speed stays within 100 RPM of the commanded RPM.
Set the parking brake, and block the drive wheels.
Install a scan tool.
Start the engine.
Turn OFF all the accessories.
With the scan tool RPM control function, slowly increment engine speed to 1,700 RPM, then to 600 RPM, then to 1,800 RPM.
Exit the RPM control function.
Does the engine speed stabilize within 100 RPM of the commanded RPM during the above test?


011 Idle Speed Problems Scan Data For Idle Control

016 Engine Misfire Crank and Cam Signals

DTC P1351 Circuit Description The ignition control module (ICM) has independent power and ground circuits. The circuits between the ICM and the powertrain control module (PCM) consists of the following circuits:

• The ignition control (IC) timing signal
• The IC timing control
• The low resolution engine speed signal
• The medium resolution engine signal
• The camshaft position signal
• The low reference

The ICM sends 3X signals to the PCM, and controls the timing advance during engine cranking. The timing advance changes to PCM control after the following actions occur:

• The PCM receives the second 3X signal
• The PCM applies 5 volts to the ignition control (IC) timing signal circuit.

The ICM monitors the CKP sync signal when the engine is cranking. The CKP sync signal is passed from the CKP sensor to the ICM on the CKP sensor 2 signal circuit. The CKP sync signal is used to determine the correct cylinder pair and initiate the ignition coil firing sequence. The 18X reference pulses are passed from the CKP sensor to the ICM on the CKP sensor 1 circuit. The 18X reference pulses are used for fuel injection and ignition control. After the ICM receives both signals, the ICM passes the 18X and 3X reference signals to the PCM. The CMP and the CKP sensors share a 12 volt reference and low reference circuit. The CKP sensor consists of the following circuits:

• A 12 volt reference
• A low reference
• A CKP sensor 1 signal
• A CKP sensor 2 signal

That would be a symptom of a crankshaft postion sensor going bad . Shorting out when heated up . But unfortunately thier are other sensors that can cause the same problem . Plus the ICM - ignition control module could cause that problem as well . OH yea , almost forgot you vehicle has two crankshaft position sensors . You best bet , take it to a qualified repair shop that has the diagnostic tools to trouble shoot the problem .
The electronic ignition (EI) system consists of the following components and wiring circuits:
• The ignition control (IC) module
• The ignition coils
• The powertrain control module (PCM)
• The 24X crankshaft position (CKP) sensor
• The 7X CKP sensor
• The camshaft position (CMP) sensor
The EI wiring circuits listed here use the following service common names. Between the IC module and the PCM:
• Low resolution engine speed signal
• IC timing control
• IC timing signal
• Low reference
Between the 7X CKP sensor and the IC module:
• CKP sensor (1) signal
• Low reference
Between the 24X CKP sensor and the PCM:
• Medium resolution engine speed signal
• 12-volt reference
• Low reference
Between the CMP and the PCM:
• CMP sensor signal
• Low reference
• 12-volt reference
The IC module also receives power and chassis ground through the following circuits:
• Ignition (1) voltage
• Ground

When it stalls check for spark , pull spark plug wires off the same coil an crank the engine . Is thier spark jumping from one coil tower to the other ? Make sure it's a lack of spark problem .

it cuts the fuel off.

what motor?

Is the PCM power relay activating? If yes, you should hear the fuel pump hum for 5 seconds when the key is turned to ON.

If yes, then check the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensors to be sure they have output to the PCM.

The crankshaft position sensor:

• sends the powertrain control module a signal indicating crankshaft position.
• is essential for calculating spark timing.

Crankshaft Position Sensor (Integrated Ignition Systems) The crankshaft position (CKP) sensor is a magnetic transducer mounted on the engine block adjacent to a pulse wheel located on the crankshaft. By monitoring the crankshaft mounted pulse wheel, the CKP is the primary sensor for ignition information to the powertrain control module (PCM). The trigger wheel has a total of 35 teeth spaced 10 degrees apart with one empty space for a missing tooth. The 6.8L ten cylinder pulse wheel has 39 teeth spaced 9 degrees apart and one 9 degree empty space for a missing tooth. By monitoring the trigger wheel, the CKP indicates crankshaft position and speed information to the PCM. By monitoring the missing tooth, the CKP is also able to identify piston travel in order to synchronize the ignition system and provide a way of tracking the angular position of the crankshaft relative to fixed reference (Figure 23) .


Camshaft Position Sensor The camshaft position (CMP) sensor detects the position of the camshaft. The CMP sensor identifies when piston No. 1 is on its compression stroke. A signal is then sent to the powertrain control module (PCM) and used for synchronizing the firing of sequential fuel injectors. The Coil On Plug (COP) Ignition applications also use the CMP signal to select the proper ignition coil to fire. The input circuit to the PCM is referred to as the CMP input or circuit.
There are two types of CMP sensors: the three pin connector Hall-effect type sensor (Figure 20) and the two pin connector variable reluctance sensor (Figure 21).



A4 CHECK VREF VOLTAGE TO THROTTLE POSITION (TP) SENSOR

• Disconnect TP sensor.
• Key on, engine off.
• Measure voltage between VREF and SIG RTN circuit at the TP sensor harness connector. Refer to the schematic in Pinpoint Test DH .

Is voltage between 4.0 and 6.0 volts? -------- A17 CHECK PCM DRIVER TO COILS

• Connect incandescent test lamp between B+ and each coil driver circuit at the harness connector.
• Crank engine.

Does lamp blink consistently and brightly (one blink per engine revolution)?

Cmp And Ckp are your cam and crank sensors. Basically whats going on is one of those sensors are malfunctioning causing the system to adjust its resources. ie the pcm guesses how fast the cam or crank is turning and adjust timing as nessessary. Pull the crank sensor and inspect for damage. do the same for cam. You may need a book for there locations. Also using a test meter, check there output signals for correct voltage. This should point you in the right direction. Hope it helps.

The power-train (ECM) supplies a 12-volt reference circuit and a low reference circuit to both the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor and the camshaft position (CMP) sensor. The CKP sensor sends a signal to the PCM with each revolution of the crankshaft. The CMP sensor sends a signal to the PCM with each revolution of the camshaft. This diagnostic (DTC) monitors the CKP signal and the CMP signal to determine if they are synchronized. If both signals are not observed by the PCM within a narrow period of time, the PCM will determine that an error has occurred and DTC P0016 will set.