I have a 2006 Kia Rio and the check engine light comes on once a week. I took it in for repairs and they put the smoke machine on it. They replaced the solenoid and two weeks later the light was back on with the same code. They replaced the gas cap and a week later the code was back. They checked the car again and said they can't find anything wrong with it. Now it is on once a week. I got tired of going to Autozone to have it cleared so I bought the reader to clear it myself. Why does that same code keep coming back? Shirley
First of all, it does absolutely no good to clear codes without properly diagnosing the code and correcting the problem that caused the code to set in the first place. It will only result in the code returning again and again as you can now see.
You must also know how the system works and what failure is indicated by the code. Please note that fault codes NEVER tell you what parts to replace. Then you must know what conditions in the system cause the code to set in order to perform a valid diagnosis of the system.
failure.
With all that said, let's take a look at the code itself:
Diagnostic Test Code (DTC) P0496 is defined by SAE J2011 as "Evaporative Emission System High Purge Flow".
Purge flow is determined by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) by looking at the Fuel Tank Pressure (FTP) sensor. When there is little or no purge flow, the FTP sensor will read high pressure. If there is too much purge flow, the FTP will read low pressure.
The code is clearly stating that there is too much purge flow (or low pressure/high vacuum in the tank). The people that have been trying to diagnose this problem apparently do not understand this. Leaks in the system like leaking lines or defective fuel caps will cause the pressure to be too high when it is SUPPOSED to be low and will set a code P0455, P0456, or P0457. Smoke testing and fuel cap replacement is what you do for THESE codes, NOT code P0496.
In simple terms, what is happening here is that the PCM is telling the EVAP system to stop purging and it is continuing to purge anyway. This is usually caused by a stuck open Purge Control Solenoid Valve (PCSV). Now I do not know which solenoid they replaced, but I am willing to bet that they replaced the Canister Control Valve (CCV) also known as the "vent solenoid". Again, this might be a good strategy for the other codes listed above, but not the code we are working with.
The other thing that eats at my craw here is that they are randomly replacing parts, evidently without testing them first to see if they are defective and/or are the CAUSE of your problem. I do not call this diagnosis. I call this "parts-nosis". This is where a technician just starts replacing all the parts in the system untill he finally finds the one that takes care of the problem. And YOU have to pay for it! Not only are you paying for parts that do not fix the problem, but they also have the nerve to charge you for "diagnosis" time to find the problem. Then they wonder why people think that mechanics are nothing but a bunch of rip-offs!
So plain and simple, they are not finding anything wrong with your EVAP system because they are simply looking for the wrong problem. They are looking for a system leak when they should be looking at why the pressure is low or vacuum keeps increasing when the PCM is telling it to stop.
There is pretty much only three things that can cause this code:
> Stuck open PCSV (most likely)
> Defective fuel tank pressure sensor
> Defective or mis-calibrated PCM
As I suspected, the part number you listed and the labor operation description do not match. The labor operation: "Vapor Cannister Purge Valve--Remove and replace purge control solenoid." is correct. However, the part number (911-803) is a Dorman part number for a vapor canister VENT valve (it fits several vehicles including Hyundai, Subaru and Kia). Please see the link below:
http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-10872-91...
The vapor canister vent valve is located in the rear of the car near the charcoal canister (this is what they replaced). The EVAP Purge Control Solenoid is in the engine compartment (this is what is most likely causing your problem). Apparently they do not know the difference between a canister vent valve (solenoid) and a canister purge control solenoid.
Again, understanding the system and how it works is a prerequisite to correctly diagnosing and repairing the problem.
P.S. For any repair techs reading this post, there is a big lesson to be learned here.
If the techs attempting to diagnose this problem had bothered to look up the manufacturer's service information for this code on this vehicle, they would have known that smoke testing and fuel cap replacement would have been a total waste of time and the customer's hard-earned cash. Too many techs get caught up in making a "quick buck" and and do not bother to look things up. These guys apparently saw "EVAP SYSTEM" in the generic code description and ran with it. Heaven knows we have all seen lots of canister vent valve problems on Kias. However, it would have only taken a few minutes to look that up and rule the vent valve out as a possibility for this particular problem.
I get really tired of having to earn a customers trust after they have been burnt by such shoddy diagnostics and repair work!
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P0496.... Evaporative Emission System High Purge Flow to be exact....But keep in mind the code can also be cause by:
Vapor Canister Vent
Solenoid (rear by the gas tank. good-day !
No Carl, this code cannot be caused by the vent solenoid. When vent solenoids fail, they usually fail in the open position and cause a "small leak" or "large leak" code. (sometimes both small and large leak codes will set) If the vent solenoid were to somehow stick in the closed position, it would set a "non-vent" code. P0496 is a High pure flow code as you said...the vent solenoid cannot cause high purge. High purge is determined by the PCM when the vacuum in the tank continues to increase when it has commanded the purge control solenoid to turn off. There is no way that a vent solenoid is going to cause that.
SORRY ! but I gave wrong info. but thats what my records say ! but I looked further, and found the code p1451 for the vent solinoid.
That's OK. If you read the entire post, you will see that the vent solenoid has already been replaced on this vehicle. You just made the same mistake that the techs trying to diagnose the car made. Hopefully, we can all learn from this.
P.S.
Carl,
I do not know where you are getting your information. Code P1451 is NOT a generic OBD fault code for a vent solenoid. Code P1451 is a MANUFACTURER CONTROLLED CODE, which that this may apply to different things depending on the manufacturer, or even different car lines within the same manufacturer. This code is not a valid code at all for a 2006 Kia Rio and therefore, does not even apply to this post. I think I would be re-checking your "records" or where you are getting them from. They are seriously leading you in the wrong direction.
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The fix for the check engine light still remaining on is the fuel tank pressure sensor. If you don`t have a full tank of gas before you remove the negative battery cable, to do a hard reset of the ECM and sensors, you get an incorrect pressure reading from the FTP (fuel tank pressure sensor) . The ratio of purge flow to the tank pressure will always be wrong, setting the check engine light on.
SO simply have a full tank of gas before you reset the system, and remember you must drive normally after a reset, so the ECM and sensors will relearn all the ratio`s and settings again. I found this out by reading this thread and some research on line with some basic common sense. The whole auto repair community had no answers at all, except to keep replacing parts at random.
SOURCE: Check Engine light
that code definition is "Evap high purge flow fault". It means you may have a problem with the evaporative system. this system routes fuel fumes back to the fuel tank. If you want to try and clear this code, find the radio code for your car and then disconnect the battery for 30 seconds. Reconnect the battery and the check engine light should be out. You will then need the radio code to reset your car stereo. the check engine light may stay off if the condition was a transient one. If not, the light will come back on after you drive the car two drive cycles. That is: two starts, warm ups and shut downs. If the light returns, have a mechanic check it out.
SOURCE: 2002 kia rio rxv check engine light came on again..
the check engine light is not caused by any wrong fluid level or dirty air filter or anything else like that, it is caused by well over 100 faults that can occur in the computer controlled electronic engine and emission controls, u will need to go to a Kragen or Autozone parts store and get a free OBD 2 fault code test to get the code that set your light.
SOURCE: my 2006 kia optima airbag indicator light stays on
my advise to you is not to attempt a repair to the airbag system yourself. The airbag module can be set off by static electricty & goes off with the force of a shotgun blast
SOURCE: 2008 Kia Optima Check Engine Light
Just replace the air flow meter.That sounds like your problem.
SOURCE: 2008 kia optima LX Check Engine Light
P0442 EVAP Leak Monitor .040 Leak Detected (Medium Leak)
P0456 EVAP Leak Monitor .020 Leak Detected
replace your gas cap and clear codes, then wait and see if light comes back on, if it does you have a more serious problem like a fuel tank leak or a defective fuel tank pressure sensor.
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Hi,
I just looked at my receipt to see which part they replaced. It says 911-803 Vapor Cannister Purge Valve--Remove and replace purge control solenoid.
DId they replace the wrong part. If so I am going to take the information that you gave me to a different mechanic and hope it will be fixed the right way once and for all.
Thanks,
Shirley
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