Hi Erica,
I would agree with everything that Dennis Weidenbach said except that he listed code 12 and not code 13. Code 13 is the Oxygen sensor circuit. It could be a bad oxygen sensor or shorted wire to the oxygen sensor or a bad Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
Please note that ALL of the codes that you listed are CIRCUIT codes. They DO NOT mean that you should go out and buy new sensors and install them without first diagnosing the circuit to ensure that the problem is being caused by the sensors themselves.
ALL of these codes can be caused by mis-routed ignition cables. I have seen this many times when people get their ignition cabes changed and the person changing them does not route them correctly, or they fail to put them back into their protective looms. This can cause high voltage interference with the knock sensor, O2 sensor and TP sensor circuits. I would definitely check this first before spending any money on parts.
As for ZJ Limited - I have no clue where he got those code descriptions from, but they do not apply to your vehicle.
Thank you so much for your help! I'll definitely look into what you said. Do you think that if it is the ignition cables being routed incorrectly or out of their protective looms that that would cause the car to turn off while driving?
The computer is basicly telling you by those 3 codes that it is having difficulty determining whether you are stepping on the gas (Throttle Position Sensor code) and cannot properly control the ignition timing (Spark Knock Sensor circuit code) and cannot properly control the fuel mixture (Oxygen sensor code) If the check engine light has been on for a while, it is very likely that all of these codes did not set all at the same time. The oxygen sensor code is most likely caused by a wrecked oxygen sensor that was caused by continuing to operate the vehicle while other things were malfunctioning. YES, these things CAN cause the engine to stall. I would definately fix all of these codes FIRST. Then, if it continues to stall, I would suspect a faulty crankshaft position sensor. That engine is known for these going bad and causing stalling and not setting a code for the crank sensor. But again, the other codes need to be fixed FIRST. As I said originally, these are all CIRCUIT codes - the CIRCUITS need to be diagnosed to find the fault. Each one of them need to be handled as a separate problem. You fix one thing, then you clear the codes and drive the car. If the check engine light comes back on, then you deal with the next code that comes up. This is ALWAYS a long, drawn-out process when there are several codes like what you have. Sometimes, fixing one code will take care of two or three codes. That is why each one should be diagnosed individually. In your case, I would probably start with the TPS code (code 22) this one is probably the easiest to verify and can also possibly CAUSE the O2 sensor code.
Also if you have any "ticking" or "knocking" going on in your engine from a loose timing chain or noisy valve lifters, this can cause the knock sensor code (code 43). The knock sensor does not know the difference between a mechanical knock and a knock caused by pre-ignition. There are MANY variables here. There are no "cut-and-dry" solutions. It simply needs to be diagnosed.
Thank you for all of your help and suggestions. I think that it may be the TPS circuit because we replaced the sensor some time in August and then had to replace it AGAIN less than a week later. Also, there is SOME TIMES a rattling in the engine. Is there anything that would cause it to only rattle sometimes? I've noticed it more when I'm accelerating. I'm definitely taking the car to be diagnosed, I would just like to get a feel for what it might be because I've been "taken advantage of" before when it comes to car repair.
The rattleing during acceleration is most likely pre-ignition. That is what the knock sensor is for. When the knock sensor senses this, it sends a signal to the PCM and the PCM in turn, retards the ignition timing to make the rattle stop. Advancing the ignition timing provides more power and reduces exhaust emmissions. However, if it is over-advanced it can cause pre-ignition (and the rattle) and can make combustion chamber temperatures soar to the point that it can actually MELT a piston. So the knock sensor works with the computer to get thebest ignition advance without the damaging pre-ignition. Two things will cause the PCM to set a knock sensor circuit code: 1. The ignition timing has been ******** as far as the PCM can ****** it and the knock sensor is still sending a "Knock" signal. (this is usually caused by mechanical problems or outside, high-voltage interference in the knock sensor circuit.) 2. The PCM has advanced the ignition timing as far as possible and receives NO knock signal from the sensor. (this is usually caused by an open circuit between the knock sensor and the PCM, or a faulty knock sensor.)
For the TPS thing, there are all kinds of possibilities. Chances are that replacing the sensor never "fixed" anything. I have seen some things happen here that are really hard to get a customer to believe....The TPS uses a 5-volt reference from the PCM. I have had coolant level sensors in the radiator short out the 5-volt reference circuit and cause a TPS code to set. The last one I had that did this did not say a thing about the coolant level sensor - no codes for that, and the light on the dash for low coolant was not illuminating - just a TPS code. When I went to troubleshooting the TPS circuits, I found that my 5-volt reference was at about 2.3 volts. Tracking that circuit down was what found the faulty coolant level sensor. This is the kind of stuff that can happen and why it is absolutely necessary to properly diagnose before going out and replacing parts. Most people think that if the computer says "TPS circuit fault" this means replace the TPS sensor - this may work sometimes, but WILL NOT work every time. The only thing that will work every time is proper diagnosis.
Recommendation: Don't let these guys run you in circles and waste your money on "CarFax" and the like - just diagnose the codes one at a time like I told you. This is the only effective way of getting to the truth and getting it fixed correctly. If you listen to all these guys, You'll end up spending $1000 dollars trying to fix a $50 problem....and the stupid thing will end up not being fixed after all of that!
Thank you so much! I should know by tomorrow what the problem is, I'll be sure to update.
what is the trouble code 12? that is the only one flashing on mine. also it runs without fuel pump working. but shuts off when you plug the fuel pump fuse in. please see my question
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Hello
Here is the Factory manuals definitions of the codes:
OBD1 fault code 12- System normal/ready. This means the system is able to deliver stored OBD1 fault codes in its memory, it is not a fault code.
OBD1 fault code 22- TPS sensor signal voltage low, this means either the Throttle Position Sensor is defective or the wiring to it like the connector, the sensor is the most common issue. The TPS is located on the throttle body of the engine.
OBD1 fault code 43- Engine spark knock sensor signal problem. This can be a defective connector at the sensor or water intrusion into the connector or corrosion of the pins inside the connector body. The Knock sensor is located on the side of the engine block, it screws into what would on earlier years would have been a engine block drain plug. You must get under the car to see it. If you go to www.rockauto.com and look the the parts up there will be pictures of the TPS and the Knock sensor. The prices at the site are some of the best I have found, and i really do check around, I buy ALLOT of parts! Good Luck and hope this information helps.
Thank you so much. We just replaced the TP sensor about two months ago. Do you think it's probably the wiring then? Also, the first code was a 13, not 12. Thank you for the link!
Sorry missed the 13, but another expert has answed that. Yes I think it is likely the problem lies in the wiring harness of the engine, The reason heat and movement.
Correction on 43
43
ELECTRONIC SPARK CONTROL (ESC) CIRCUIT
Once again it is likely the wiring harness has an issue
It seems that fault code 43 can be either a knocj sensor or the ESC system in your case I would go with the ESC control circuit has a problem..
Thank you very much. Would you be able to tell me if the fixing the wiring harness would be expensive?
http://www.speedycarparts.com/catalog/?N...
Is that what you're talking about?
That is just a repair connector, i think the problem is more than that, unless this car is in mint condition the cost to repair will likely not be an amount you would want to spend. One thing is absolutely for sure, you need a really good electronic engine control specialist to look at this, this is way over the head of the home mechanic, special equip is needed.
Thank you. Would these problems be what's causing the car to turn off while driving?
That is very likely. I think you may have a defective ESC module.
ok so the wire harness and an esc module? The car runs great when it runs. It's been turning of lately but will start right back up :/
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Hello! Code13= Oxygen sensor..In this instance I would call this code an effect not a cause...Code 22=This code is indicating a faulty Throttle Positioning Sensor (TPS)...I would call this code the cause of the fault...Code 43=Knock sensor...This code is an effect...The Oxygen sensor and Knock sensor, in my opinion, are reacting to a faulty TPS...You can test the TPS with a voltmeter...3 wires in the TPS connector...Colors are...Gray (5 volt reference)...Dark Blue (sensor output)...And Black (ground)...
Using 2 safety pins...Push the points into the rear of the in-place tps connector into the Black and Dark Blue...Set meter to read 5 volts...Clip (+) meter probe to Dark Blue...Clip (-) probe to Black...Start engine ...At idle You should read less than 1 volt (.85)...Increase throttle and voltage should rise to 4 volts at full throttle...If either reading is not correct the TPS is defective; Replace...See picture of TPS below...This is for a 4 cylinder...If your vehicle has a 6 let me know...Guru...Saailer
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TH47 cost around $30
I’m happy to help further over the phone at https://www.6ya.com/expert/david_6df67de3b14de867
CODE 13 - OXYGEN SENSOR CIRCUIT. CODE 22 - THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR VOLTAGE LOW. CODE 43 - ELECTRONIC SPARK CONTROL UNIT.
13- is oxygen sensor, 22- is throttle position sensor, 43- is electronic spark control fault. gm OBD-I codes, good-day!
Fault Code 13
Description: MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor pneumatic failure: sensor output does not change
Power loss light: On
Limp-in mode: TPS and engine speed used as an indication of manifold pressure
Fault Code 22
Description: Coolant temperature sensor signal out of range
Power loss light: On
Limp-in mode: Radiator fan is turned on and the charge temperature sensor as an indication of the coolant temperature
Fault Code 43
Description: Ignition coil driver circuit open or shorted.
Power loss light: Off
Contact us in the links if you need additional details. Hope this helps.
Hello, My fault Codes show different results, and if you can not fix your car with the information others have given you, my resultsmay help.
Aboutautomobile.com is the source and for CodeP0013 the problem is "B" Camshaft position Actuator circuit is open on Bank 1, CodeP0022 is the Camshaft position timing is over-******** on Bank 2, and for Code P0043, the O2 sensor has low heat on Sensor 3/Bank 1.
The O2 heat defect can cause the engine to adjust the Timing incorrectly. The O2 sensors have built-in heaters and if the wiring to that part is corroded or the O2 sensor heat element is burned out, you need to check for bare wires at the rub points to the O2 sensor.
Stray Voltage from this part can affect the Voltage pickup from the Cam sensors and interfere with it. While I agree with some of the other Experts trying to help you, my Solution is as plausable as theirs and changing this one O2 sensor and repairing its wiring could be all you need.
Also have your Alternator checked on the car. When an Alternator arcs within its casing, it can charge the frame with stray voltage. This throws off any sensor not insulated against this problem. Autozone, Advance, and Oreilys will test a Alternator for free.
Let me know what you found as the real problem and what cured it.
Thank you so much, I probably won't find out until next week but I'll be sure to update. We actually had the alternator checked about two months ago and they said it was fine. We changed the battery at that time and thought that was the cause of our problems with the car turning off.
Fordexpert,
We are talking about a 1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass here. This is an OBD 1 vehicle. These are not "P" codes. The codes are 13, 22 and 43 - NOT P0013, P0022 and P0043.
The vehicle we are talking about is equipped with only ONE O2 sensor. It is a single wire sensor and does not even HAVE a heater. Camshaft position actuators had not even been thought of in 1990. Variable cam timing has only started to come about in the last 7 years or so.
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I realized I never update this. I took it to a shop and they replaced my oxygen sensor (it was broken off) and the car runs a lot smoother. I was told I need to get an oil and coolant leak repaired and replace my crankshaft position sensor as well. I was also told before we found out about the CPS that my fuel pump may be going out. Thanks for everyone's help and advice.
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