IBM Desktar disk problem?

Hi,

IBM did, it seems. I don't think it was something that would have been
fixable from os level. It might really have been an error on the hard
disk. A forgotten call, whatever.

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Thunder
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On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:05:23 +0200 (MET DST)

Yes. First one was like a frying pan on the surface. But the second had a moderate temp. Inside temp of the box, no problem.

Regards,
Mats Johannesson
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Overheating?

Regards
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Bartlomiej

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At 2002-07-05 15:23:39 Daniel Egger <deg @fhm.edu> wrote:

How about a 20 gig Seagate Barracuda ATA II Model ST320420A dying after 1.5 months, and the replacement disk - same model - after 5 months. The supplier blamed my IDE controller (old standard
Intel Corp. 82371FB PIIX IDE [Triton I]: chipset revision 2) and refused to replace the second dud.

The 15 gig IBM-DTLA-307015 has worked flawlessly in the same system for a year. Have yet to try TCQ though. Waiting for a "stable" and modern 2.4

Regards,
Mats Johannesson
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*shrug* FreeBSD should have eaten some of those drives as well, it has
been offering hw.ata.tags="1" to enable DMA QUEUED for a while now.

And yes, my deathstar DTLA307045 still works without a single broken
block, but never used TCQ beyond booting 2.5.17 once (no LVM -> not
useful for me).

Another DTLA307045 died some days ago, it has never seen TCQ.

On 5 Jul 2002, Daniel Egger wrote:



There are no reallocated sectors.
Do you know what these error messages means ?

        MOJE

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Am Fre, 2002-07-05 um 16.29 schrieb Anton Altaparmakov:

This is unacceptable; if my problem is really fixable by a firmware
upgrade IBM should have pushed this very upgrade publically after they
started to learn about the problem. Saying "Hey, BTW: if you had this
firmware version you would never have experienced your data loss" is
a very strong argument to never buy any IBM hardware again.

Still, the techsupport insisted on a software problem and didn't mention
a firmware upgrade; up to now I didn't even knew such a thing exists.
And letting customers lowlevel-format a drive, restore their data,
and experience the same problem again a week later is anything but
professional.

Though the timespan makes me curious: Why is there a magnitude
difference in runtime between the first problem on a fresh drive
and after a lowlevel format?

--
Servus,
       Daniel

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Am Fre, 2002-07-05 um 16.03 schrieb Thunder from the hill:

Except you believe in the at least questionable explanation from IBM
there's nothing one can solve with software. And since quite a lot
of drives died under several Linux, Windows, *BSD and Mac versions
I don't buy the driver argument and in fact think that IBM is using
this poor excuse to avoid a big (and expensive) replacement plan
on the cost of the users.

I've yet to see a <insert your favourite non-IBM harddrive manufacturer
here>-drive dying after a few months of use, the negative record in this
regard (except for the IBMs) was a Quantum Atlas UW-SCSI drive (which
was in fact also manufactured FOR IBM) which died after 2,5 years of
heavy use which is at least somewhere in the range what one might expect
as lifetime; all other drives here (up to 10 years old) are still alive
and kickin'.

Even if you have backups and RAID systems, a broken harddrive can be
quite expensive; think of data restoration, drive replacement,
downtimes, shipment, data loss which all costs at least one thing: time
and lots of it.

We estimate around 10h per broken drive while it takes a lot less time
(<1h) to simple replace the discs before the accident which is what
we're doing now with all IBM drives prophylactically.

--
Servus,
       Daniel

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Hi,

On 5 Jul 2002, Daniel Egger wrote:

Can be anything. The disk's administration parts getting messed up with
crap, and already having got messed up by some test run right after
production. Or maybe the drives were padded with maintainer data before
they were shipped (means, after production).

Imagine it thermodynamically. A half-ordered system keeps getting messed
up. Somewhen it's messed up. If you order your system it will take longer
for the drive to get messed up.

Maybe the part which failed in the old firmware was some garbage
collection code? Something that removes the crap?

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Thunder
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Am Fre, 2002-07-05 um 16.48 schrieb Tomas Konir:



Not good. Check for the "Reallocated Sector Ct".

--
Servus,
       Daniel

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I find this hard to believe (why would using a different set of
read/write commands show problems?!), and so far the evidence is far
from conclusive. I'll be watching it, though.

Any reason you haven't reported this?! Please do so.

--
Jens Axboe

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Here's a good place to start:

http://www.geocities.com/dtla_ update/

Cheers,

Phil
------------------------------­---------------
Phil Randal
Network Engineer
Herefordshire Council
Hereford, UK



http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac. uk/~aia21/

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If it helps I'll send you complete Log error structure from smartct.

Error Log Structure 1:
DCR   FR   SC   SN   CL   SH   D/H   CR   Timestamp
 00   08   80   ee   88   a2    e0   cc     1210341
 00   08   08   ee   88   a2    e0   a2     1210341
 00   08   87   04   1d   20    e0   cc     1210341
 00   00   00   04   1d   20    e0   00     1210341
 00   00   80   06   42   67    e1   c8     1210341
 00   84   00   85   42   67    e1   51     0
Error condition:   0    Error State:       3

Error Log Structure 2:
DCR   FR   SC   SN   CL   SH   D/H   CR   Timestamp
 00   80   00   3e   66   23    e1   c7     1386233
 00   80   08   3e   66   23    e0   a2     1386233
 00   80   30   be   66   23    e1   c7     1386233
 00   80   80   be   66   23    e1   c4     1386233
 00   08   08   26   32   a4    e0   cc     1386237
 00   84   00   2d   32   a4    e0   51     0
Error condition:   0    Error State:       3

sorry but this oops was only on screen and i were no time for log this
to the paper. After second error i removed tcq from my kernel.
(I have no money for new disk now).

        MOJE

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Tomas Konir
Brno
ICQ 25849167

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At 15:03 05/07/02, Thunder from the hill wrote:



Um, the solution is already known. Upgrade the firmware on the drive, low
level format if the drive thinks there are bad sectors, and be happy. At
least it worked for me...

The very first question when making a support call for my broken deathstar
was "Have you installed the firmware update?" "No." "Download it here and
install, come back if it still doesn't work."

I never thought it would work but it did! It seems there is something wrong
in the firmware the drives are shipped with and some suppliers obviously
know this considering my experience... When I was running the DFT test
utility it was telling me my drive is broken and needs to be returned.
After the firmware update the same test utility passed all tests repeatedly!

With 5 deathstars (one DTLA and four IC ones), all with firmware updates
now, I have no problems and the oldest of the drives is now over 3 years
old IIRC and some are pretty much in constant spun-up state since purchase...

The only problem I can see is that IBM is not pushing people to apply the
firmware updates. I have never been even able to find where to download
them on the IBM website. - I downloaded them from the website of my supplier...

Best regards,

         Anton

--
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On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, Thunder from the hill wrote:



Hmm... Would you be so kind to find it? ;-)

--
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Hi,

On 5 Jul 2002, Daniel Egger wrote:

...and tell all the people who got a DTLA (because it's not as expensive
as others in some countries, mind France, USA, Germany) to drop their
disks if they want to use Linux, because we're too lazy to find a
solution. That might be cool to you, but we want HARDWARE SUPPORT for
Linux! That's why we're here.

There _is_ a solution, we just have to find it.

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Thunder
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On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, Thunder from the hill wrote:

Huh?

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Right now they are good just for the trash box.
There is no way they could work, and I listen a noisy
tic-tac frrr tic-tac from the head of the disks...

I would think to an HW problem, but why all three together?
and why exacly when I tested tcq?

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On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 v @sns.it wrote:



hi i have similar problem.
No dead disks, but after two days testing tcq patches (on 2.4). I
got the two ATA errors (smartctl said).
I think that it's no good to test tcq on IBM disks. My disk was without
any problems one year. Two problems now is not normal.
For final i think, that tcq patch is not fully stable, becouse on high
disk load i get oops and have to reboot. I have no problem when i remove
tcq patches.
(high load i mean copy cca 20GiB between two IBM disks).

        MOJE

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Brno
ICQ 25849167

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Good to know, I'm glad it works for you :-)

Might be a good idea, I did the same thing on my DTLA as well.

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Am Fre, 2002-07-05 um 12.27 schrieb v @sns.it:

I suspect it's the usual IBM crap phenomenon; three discs died in the
last two weeks (1 DTLA and 2 IC35) here, that's a whooping 33% of the
IBM drives I use. No TCQ involved and on one not even Linux and the
other two had two different stable 2.4 kernels.

<problemdescription>
The drives started developping bad sectors, one of the drives to a
degree over 10% of the total amount sectors; according to IBM it's
a "software failure" of the device driver and can be fixed by what
they call "Erase Disc" i.e. a lowlevel format. Needless to say I
tried this on one drive and the problems started again one week
later. The drives are between 3 and 12 months old and are now on
their way to IBM.
</problemdescription>

<advise>
Buy decent drives, then get DriveFitnessTest (DFT) from their website
and check the harddrives, note the TRC number, request an RMA on their
website and ship the drives as soon as possible to IBM. Wait for the
replacement drives and sell them ASAP on Ebay to some freaks who don't
give a dime about data security.
</advise>

--
Servus,
       Daniel

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At 11:40 05/07/02, Jens Axboe wrote:



It is puzzling indeed, especially since I am running with TCQ enabled ever
since you introduced it and my disk is still alive an kicking. It being a
Deathstar, too.

On of my Deathstars actually broke (before TCQ came about though!) but
after upgrading the firmware on it and powercycling it fixed itself and has
been working just fine ever since.

Perhaps something worth trying on those broken disks, too?

Best regards,

         Anton

--
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--
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This is a puzzling report. I wouldn't recommend that anyone use tcq in
2.5 actually, since even I do not know what state it is currently in. I
would seriously recommend 2.4 + tcq patches instead.

That said, are your disks completely dead now? As in they do not work
with a regular 2.4 kernel anymore?!

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