The driver developers are CHOKING the Windows 2000 _revolution_.

In article <8i724v$ig @news.creativelabs.com>, dagand @NOSPAMgeocities.com
says...
[..]

Boy, that "Sesame Street Toddler's Deluxe" must be an application
for real *executive* Power Users!  ;-)

David

Crack.  Lots of it.

So far, the only punkassedness I've seen in Hardware drivers is Intel's vow
NEVER to support the PC Camera Pro Pack under Win2k, and their excuse is
"Well, since it's NT-based, it falls outside the target market."
Right--business users have no need for a teleconferencing device, I guess?

    That's OK, I like 3Com better.  Their's works :-)

LOL, I worked in a comparable company and the "tech" people they hired
were... Well, interesting... The people who do the hiring have no
understanding about computers at all so they just hire people based on how
good and "tech savvy" they sound in the interview...

One of the people who was filling a position had actually paid $100 to a
computer repair company because she did not install the drivers for her
video card and failed to notice that they were not installed and needed to
be.. The only thing these people actually knew was what they learned from
"in store training videos". The windows 2000 one explained all about how it
was only good for bussiness's *and* never should be used in the home
enviroment.

So if you were to walk in and buy it you would get a similar response to the
one you got at compusa unless something has dramatically changed in the past
few months (I quit a few months ago).

And here it is for the NewsGroup Impaired!

People have all become Mac Heads. Meaning that they no longer need to know
what's under the hood. They just plug it in. Turn it on and expect it to
work. This is fine and dandy. But it also breads Computer Morons. Not that
I'm calling anyone here a moron. I don't know any of you well enough to do
that. But what I am saying is Gui killed "HAVING" to know how to make your
computer do what you want. Now you just install a tweaker, a themer, or some
other app that takes all the need of "knowing" why something does something
away.

People now just spout off way too fast and way too often many times about
things they do NOT have a clue about.
9x Is no longer after Windows Me. Windows Me is NOTHING more then Windows
98SE with the Windows 2000 Shell. [and even then only SOME of it] Because
EVEN MS knows that most computer users are basically Computer Illiterate,
they have moved everything that people can do to HARM their system out of
their hands. They slap a web based user interface, and update some of the
drivers and call it a new os. Well Windows Me is FAR from a new os. And its
the last of its breed. As of Whistler, 9x and NT will finally be one and the
same kernel as well as core and shell. 9x is replaced with "Personal
Edition" Workstation is "Professional Edition" And Server is "Server,
Advanced Server, and Data Server"

As much as it pains me dos is dead. At least true dos. I mean even in NT 95%
of the old DOS apps and many games still run. But Dos = legacy, and legacy =
stability problems. Until you just say we no longer support apps that are 15
years old, you will always be hampered by stability problems.
On the plus side, with the NT kernel you no longer have to deal with DPMI
[i.e. Dos Protected Mode Interface] which is what the 9x kernel basically
uses to try to keep one app from screwing with another, and as we all know,
doesn't work, or at least doesn't work well. Instead it moved to a true
"threading" protection scheme, more like that of Unix based os's and is much
more stable, and though requires a tad more memory, more then makes up for
it in speed and stability.

I guess I just had enough of people saying "Whiners, this os sucks, that os
sucks, bla bla bla." Instead of focusing on what the real issue is. And that
is Drivers. Drivers are the #1 reason an os is Stable or not. Good drivers
keep an os stable, bad drivers, cause problems. Creative though they claim
have only had a few months to deal with Windows2k for making good stable
drivers is in my opinion full of shit. Even if they only had 2k 2 freaking
weeks, the WDM specs and Windows 98SE have been around a LONG time, and
since 98se ALSO supports WDM, then they should have had PLENTY of time to
start working on these drivers. Sure VXD [i.e. 16 bit drivers] are easer to
deal with. Sure threading brings in Extra iss

I started saying this months ago when the excuses first started:  "it's a
business OS".  Still, people will always look for excuses not to strive for
excellence.  Ironically, laziness is a strong motivator.

I remember when Creative was pushing 16-bit audio and DSP technology (SB16
ASP) when people were saying "you can't tell the difference" and "nothing
supports 16-bit".  Back then, Soundblaster meant "the best".  If you wanted
compatibility with ANYTHING (any game, and any OS), you bought a
Soundblaster.  Adlib was feature limited, Pro Audio Spectrum's compatibility
stinked.  Gravis Ultrasound wasn't widely supported.

Now we have an awesome audio processor (the EMU10K1) with drivers that use
barely 50% of its capability.  We have clicks and pops and crashes with
certain motherboards and games.  And we have partial and/or unstable OS
support in every OS except Windows 95 (don't say 98 -- since LiveWare3
doesn't support WDM).

In my opinion, Creative has lost its focus.  Sure, it may temporarily be
more profitable as it diversifies into consumer electronics and things like
Lava.  But in the end, I wonder if the old saying will prove true:

Jack of all trades, master of none.

-John
www.silco.com
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A nephew of mine is a salesman in a comparable business, although I'm
certain he does a good job I'd never ask him for advice on these matters :)

JP

By the time they release working drivers, Windows 2001 will have
shipped. ;-)  Nah I agree with you, what is the percentage of the gaming
world uses Win2000 now anyways....

Well MS has positioned it as a business OS and has indeed influenced
retailers in that direction. Probably has something to do with support. High
priced software is kept locked away at the CompUsa I shop at in that it's
not on the shelf and you have to ask someone to get it for you. To my
surprise the salesman tried to talk me out of buying Win2K. First he asked
if it was going to be used for business purposes, he then asked if I had a
network, then he asked if I ever used NT and went on about how Win98 was
better for home use and so forth. All the while I'm saying to myself "get
the @#$% thing and cut the comedy". This seemed to be the trend at that
store since I have heard other salesmen saying the same thing about Win2K to
other customers.

What is the guy doing?
Demanding isn't it?

JP

I agree

All my "consumer" applications run marginally faster under win2k - including
the latest 3d games and "consumer" products... But GOD FORBID that I would
use it to run games/consumer programs on... Even though it is faster - more
stable and has way better networking support (duh).

The only reasons I can think of calling win9x a better "consumer" OS is
because it is marginally easier to setup and understand *and* also because
win2k gets shrugged off as an OS that does not need to be supported.

I am not saying creative is shrugging it off, I will be VERY pleased if they
release a June driver that sports good features similar to its 9x
counterpart, but a lot of vendors (Sigma Designs is a great example) simply
give it a back seat and create HORRID drivers for it and justify it by
stating that it is a "business OS".

- Joshua

You know here it is again, and once again, I just say look for my old post
in the OTHER 9x VRS Win2k thread.

Craig

Very well said ! That's a valid point.  And please no flames
or I'll come down on you like an bear let loose... ;-)))

Yes! the market decides and... Yes! Microsoft is able to influence this.
That's the main reason American Justice Department is making it so difficult
for them. There are already scenario's of multinationals running the world
in the future.

Win ME is only there to make the transition even smoother. OS/2 was a bit to
radical at the time but look at what Microsoft did with Windows 3.0. To
migrate the market to Windows NT, they even made 2 platforms and the only
reason people bought it was to run Excel.

Windows 2000 can run all quality software of the Windows 98 platform and
runs most of it even better.

JP

But the NT codebase is now on par with the 9x one, even when it comes to
"consumer" tasks like multimedia.

Someone compared 2000 and NT4 to 98 and 95. The differences in 2000 are MUCH
larger than that, both server and client parts - maybe not such a big change
as Windows 3.1 -> 95, but more like that than 95 -> 98 (even though that
change was also more under hood than clearly visible).

/Carl

How much time does it cost for huge parties to create good drivers for
anything?

Take matrox, NVidia, Via, Intel.
It's just that the developers can be good but to create mature drivers for
even win9x can cost more than a year!
Windows 2000 is just nearly half a year around the corner so don't expect
them to create good drivers by now.

b.t.w. I use windows 2000 for both gaming and developing and for DVD. No
probs anymore. Just do not choose minor hardware parties.

It was designed to replace both Win9x and WinNT4.

It's only because Microsoft wimped out (primarily because of 3rd party
manufacturers not writing proper WDM drivers for Win98) that WinME is going
to exist.

ME is the last Win9x OS however.  It's lifespan is quite limited.  Deal with
it.

WinNT has _always_ been "designed" to replace Win9x.

The market decides.  Are you trying to influence that?

-Dave
 d @cfcl.com

Yes, I use Win 2000 (NT) in my work and Win 98se in my home :)

Victor

Keyan <fall_of_st @hotmail.com> escribi?? en el mensaje de noticias
8i49gt$l7 @news.creativelabs.com...

they are working hard to deliver what the people want.
patience is a virtue

I seem to remember seeing some postings from this server before.  I think it was
dated sometime in April, about a month before I started here.

... Dave, our little friend is back again.
--
Harvey Fong
Technical Marketing Specialist
Audio Products
Creative Labs Inc.
http://www.soundblaster.com

Revolution?  Umm..hate to break it to ya, but win2000 is not designed to
"revolutionize" anything.  It is simply an upgrade to windows NT 4, like
windows 98 is to win 95.  It is designed as a business OS, and not as a
consumer OS like 98 is.

The demand has to increase before the supply does.

Where does this crap come from?

-Dave
 d @cfcl.com