Speeding in a school zone? Hardly... Please advise!

"Sorry, sir, but it sure *looked like* one of your license plate
lights was burnt out!  Sorry 'bout that body cavity search." - a
certain blue bird type
--
C.R. Krieger

< >...

Well, you get a good score for effort, but it's still a little off the mark.
I'll see if I can simplify it even more (if that's possible).

You have one guy who's going 75 in a 65, but has comitted no other traffic
offenses.  He can only be cited for speeding.

There's another guy who's going 75 in a 65, cutting in and out of traffic,
causing other vehicles to brake or take action to avoid being hit.  That guy
can be arrested for Reckless Driving.

I hope that helps.

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jaybird
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I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

So you admit that you can be ticketed for behavior that is common for
on-duty officers?

It's not redirection.  It's the whole point.

1) Speeding is illegal.  Cops speed all the time.
2) Making an improper lane change is illegal.  Cops make improper lane
changes all the time.
3) Making a turn or lane change without signalling is illegal.  Cops
turn or change lanes without signaling all the time.

Now, of those three, I'd argue that 1) is not really such a big deal
other than the hypcocrisy, but 2) and 3) are actual safety issues.
However, to Joe Average Driver who has had an adversarial relationship
with traffic cops all his life and hasn't thought about things too much
other than "cops break the law all the time" that fosters the impression
that traffic law really isn't that important other than it's a bad thing
to get caught.

More pertinent to the thread, speeding, particularly a ticky-tack
offense like 41 in a 35 which is really a 25 because it's a school zone
(but on a Saturday afternoon) is something that police do all day every
day, and in no way affects anyone's safety.

Let's put it this way, would you feel any pangs of moral queasiness
ticketing someone for something that you yourself do on a regular basis?

nate

--
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< >...

That's interesting, but still doesn't change the fact.  Writing tickets to
hold people accountable for their actions is a lot different than throwing
them into a gas chamber.

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jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Robert N. Lee" <cranchingw @earthhibbyjibbyjeelink.net> wrote in message < >...

They must *all* be as stupid as you, then.

Yeah; like the *4-lane divided boulevard state highway* where my kid's
school is located.  But then, *we* have the common sense to enforce
the zone for about 1/2 hour in the morning and 1/2 hour in the
afternoon - if school is in session.  Otherwise, it's a 35 mph zone.
It must suck to be you.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Glad I'm not that dumb)

Guilty conscience?  I don't get tailgated and followed by cops.

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jaybird
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I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

You say "our perspective" as though I don't drive off-duty.  Neither one of
those defenses are going to be valid for being in violation of a law that is
clearly stated and posted.

Redirection isn't going to help any either.

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jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

For what? Doing 35-40 in a 40?

Lucky you. Maybe when I am as old as you it will drop to zero. It's been
dropping as time goes by.

*sigh*

the point is, it takes a lot of chutzpah to tell the guy that.  At the
very worst, the guy is guilty of 41 in a 35 (which you wouldn't think
would be worth writing, although I've been ticketed for similar - once got
a ticket for "73 in a 65" when my speedo needle was firmly planted over the
65 mark) unless the school zone signs were clearly marked in large print
"Enforced 24 hours a day" or something like that.  I don't see how a
reasonable person can look at the situation and see otherwise.

Justice may be blind, but does it have to be incoherent as well?

nate

Which means all those pesky 'constitutional rights' and a higher
standard of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) kick in, so cops don't
like to go there if they can produce equal revenue with a speeding
ticket.

Howzat for an 'uneducated layman', 'bird?
--
C.R. Krieger
(Just try me)

Which is the same thing I tell to the violators who I give tickets too.  I'm
just being consistent.  :o)

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jaybird
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I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

David W. Poole, Jr. wrote:

Because people don't always think through the consequences of their actions.

Oh, wait, that was a rhetorical question, wasn't it?

That doesn't mean that when situations like this occur we shouldn't take
a good hard look at what's happened and try to rectify the situation, of
course...

nate

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Surely there are enough violations of real safety-related laws that you
don't have to pull people over for violating a school zone speed limit
on a Saturday?  Heck, I see people violating laws in front of cops all
the time without getting tickets, so it's clear that at least around
here cops aren't required to ticket every single violation that they see.



Which is what the OP appears to be doing, although instead of being
helpful, you're just telling him he should have known better.

nate

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You mean like a school zone that's enforced 24/7 is "properly marked an
posted?"  Even though everyone expects it to be 8AM to 3PM or something
like that?

Also, I have tried in the past to check with the SHA regarding various
underposted stretches of Interstate and at least their email contacts
don't even understand the concept of a traffic survey.  It's hard to get
the info I want when the people answering the emails don't even
understand the most basic of concepts re: properly set speed limits.

nate

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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:02:44 GMT, "jaybird" <nos @me.com> was
understood to have stated the following:

If that's the case, then why are there many roads you travel on where
driving the speed limit makes you the slowest vehicle on the road?

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 08:31:27 GMT, "jaybird" <nos @me.com> was
understood to have stated the following:

Give us a *reasonable* set of laws and they will be obeyed.

Give us a set of laws that police officers and legislators adhere to,
as the common population is supposed to, and they will be obeyed.

Until then, keep on generating revenue for the police department,
without addressing the nature of the problem.

You can?  Please explain it to me, because it seems eminently
unreasonable to me (and apparently to the OP as well)

yeah, what he said.

nate
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I don't know of any speed limits that are posted for no good reason
whatsoever.  All of the ones around here are properly marked and posted, so
I don't have any sympathy for the driver who gets caught.  Now, if one is
not properly posted, then I'm not allowed to write tickets for violations,
unless you revert back to the "default" speeds, so to speak, as defined by
the traffic code for roads that aren't otherwise posted.  If you think
you've found one, that's not set up right then you can check with your local
governmental body with jurisdiction over it and they can tell you what
studies and/or actions were taken to post it.

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jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Uncle Dollar Bill" <UncleDollarB @SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
<nos @me.com>



But are we opening up our laws to be interpreted by the individual as to
whether or not he personally thinks a law is reasonable?  What if that law
was voted on and passed by the citizenry because they wanted it that way?
Our courts are the ones who determine if a law is reasonable or not, not the
individual to do as he pleases just because he doesn't agree.  The "obey the
law and you won't have to be harassed" comment means that you're placing the
blame on cops and it's not their fault.  They're just doing the job that the
citizens in their jurisdition pay them to do, yet people want to blame them
for their willful violations.

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jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Oh, you mean like if a speed limit is posted for no good reason whatsoever,
YOU KNOW THAT, and choose to write tickets for violators anyway?  -Dave

Sure you do.  What thread did you think YOU were responding to?  :)  -Dave

Look at it from our perspective.  Why should we follow laws that a)
appear to be pointless and b) the police don't follow?

Let's not get into the laws that *do* have a point that police don't
follow, like signal use, mirror use, etc...

nate

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I considered being tailgated and followed by law enforcement officers
harrassment.