Celeron 400 vs. 300a Overclocked

Are these fatal exception errors? Or page fault errors?

-Merle

Didn't you post something about AMD's being faster than p2's last time I was
here?

--
Rich

"This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this is mine."

http://www.insidetheweb.com/mb s.cgi/mb179981

Hi John,

Intel does not support operating the Intel(R) Celeron(TM) Processor beyond the
specified
limits. By "Overclocking" your processor you void any warranty or support from
Intel and
likely your system/motherboard manufacturer. If you wish to continue further
discussion on processor overclocking, please do
so in the Intel.etc forum, which was created for off topic and unsupported
subjects.

Further messages in the thread, on the subject, will be removed

the Intel.etc forum:
http://support.intel.com/newsg roups/inteletc.htm

--
Randy S.
Intel Internet Technical Support
* All other brands and names are property of their respective owners.

Mitchman: Maybe anonymous made a mistake and was actually talking about the price ;)
He has good reason to remain anonymous with that post. :)

1.This is a Celeron help site
2.Where the ??? is the janitor guy that deletes this type of bull|||?
3.Any id|| that thinks a Celeron a is better than a Regular p2, can keep
  on thinking just that,,,,who cares....only the smart people know the truth
4.Where the ||| is that janitor guy that deletes this crap...?
5.Overclocked, underclocked...who cares cel heads  are still 40% slower than reg
  p2's

You guys argue over the stupidest things...period!!!!!!!

HELP SITE

Both brands of memory are on the hardware compatibilty testing lists from
FIC.... Again, we experience no downtime or system level crashes, jsut the
"quirkiness" of applications randomly crashing about one application per machine
per day. I always try to be open minded about hardware. I used to avoid Intel
like the plague because I really was impressed withthe performance of my Cryix
chip (4 years ago) but I gave Intel procesors a shot when I bought my Celeron. I
was more impressed witht he stability of the Intel base machine. But I gave AMD
a shot. The performance of the AMD machines is fine butnow I have become
accustomed to the stability of the Intel machines so I would never again
recommend Super 7 machines for businees use... Of course, I don't recommend the
Celeron either unless cost is a concern then I would recommend a Celeron over a
K6-2...



--
Outlaw98

** Nothing In Spec Inside
    (112MHz bus running Celeron 300a at 504MHz, AGP at 75MHz, PCI at 37MHz)

Disclaimer : Overclocking is neither supported nor recommended by Intel and
             voids any warranty you have on your system. It is not something
             easily accomplished by an amatuer. If you want to overclock and
             are not sure if you can, email me at pjjaco @earthlink.net to
             see if it is feasable for your system

Well I do consider games real world, that is why the celery when
overclocked is a good chip, if all you do is play games then the celery
is your chip, but for the gen user the real world apps lag on it per the
persoanl experience I am going through now. At 450 it really isnt bad at
300 what a joke. And this is because Windows uses the larger caches and
so do office apps.

-Merle

Winstone 98
http://www.tomshardware.com/re leases/98q3/980824/index1.html
Not overclocked:
Intel Celeron 300a/66: 25.1
Intel Pentium II 300/66 25.4
25.1/25.4=98.8% as fast

Overclocked:
Intel celeron 450/100: 31.7
Intel Pentium II 450/100: 31.4
1% faster

3d gaming performance: Quake 2 massive demo
http://www.tomshardware.com/re leases/98q3/980824/index2.html
Intel Celeron 300a/66: 50 fps
Intel Pentium II 300/66 52 fps
50/52=96% as fast

Overclocked:
Intel celeron 450/100: 70 fps
Intel Pentium II 450/100: 69 fps
1% faster

I fail to see the 40% you talk about

No, we just respond to posts from them:)

    Mitch

Etal,
    Because, as I mentioned in my post, for home use, this behavior is expected
and acceptable. Home users have alwasy used and suffered from the inherent
instability of Window 3.1, Windows 95, and Windows 98. When you are dealing with
an operating system that will crash irregardless of the hardware you put it on,
how can you complain about the hardware? Microsoft has long since beat the
consumer into submission forcing them to pay the same price for what is little
better than a debugged copy of the last consumer OS Microsoft sold. Ask anyone
typical home user how they use their computer.... they turn it on to play
solitaire or browse the web then they turn it off... that is what Win9x was made
for, When you try to leave your computer on all the time and expect it to never
crash, you can not use Win9x becasue Win9x typically crashes once every 24 hours
or so if you leave it running all the time and actually use the computer. I hav
seen this behavior on every single Win9x machine made by various OEMs with
various hardware.. Intel, Cyrix, or AMD, in the case of home computers the
hardware doesnt make a difference because the problem lies in the OS.
    As I mentioned, the quirkiness we are experiencing with our AMD machines is
nothing really terrible, just a little quirky. The kinds of problems we see with
our two Super 78machines is NOTHING compared to the problems you see with the
typical home computer. One of my software developers recently bought his first
home computer.. a Pentium II 400MHz on a BX motherboard. Of course, it came with
Win98 and he returned it to the shop it came from within 3 days because it "kept
crashing" After they tested it and told him ther was nothing wrong with the
hardware, he brought it in to work and asked me to look at it. I installed NT
4.0 workstaion on it for him (dual boot) and sent it home with him... Now it is
fine and never crashes in NT.... And there is no quirkiness as long as he runs
NT.... He never worked with Win98 before so to him it seemed unusual that the
computer would crash once a day unlike our NT workstations here at work.
    So there is my common sense. OEMs get away with shipping such "quirky"
systems because people accept them and the OEMs can blame all the problems
(justifiably so) on Microsoft.



--
Outlaw98

** Nothing In Spec Inside
    (112MHz bus running Celeron 300a at 504MHz, AGP at 75MHz, PCI at 37MHz)

Disclaimer : Overclocking is neither supported nor recommended by Intel and
             voids any warranty you have on your system. It is not something
             easily accomplished by an amatuer. If you want to overclock and
             are not sure if you can, email me at pjjaco @earthlink.net to
             see if it is feasable for your system

Well if you explain it like that :)

Strange that you don't think of games as "real world" when the majority of
home users play games on their computers.  And honestly, games like Unreal &
Half Life run faster on my P2-450 than on my Celeron 450.  As a matter of
fact I have a decent collection of games, and I can't recall any that run
faster on the Celeron 450.

But when I run tests like Winbench and Winstone, or check some of the
benchmark sites, the Celeron comes out on top in a few areas.

Oh well.

Gary.

So now you are trying to tell us that heavy I/O = server applications and
that this require a larger cache?

Sorry guys, many, many server applications benefit little from a larger
cache just like many server applications benefit little from a better fpu.

Any Celeron, or K6-2, or Pentium MMx, or K6, or Pentium will be far more
than adequate for probably 50 to 60 percent of the server installations
furrently in use.

Well, lets see now, fax servers, modem pooling servers, email servers,
internet servers, even basic file servers - especially in small to medium
sized business.

Sure this wouldn't be a good configuration for a sequel (or any) database
server or a transaction server.  But there are many server applications that
don't need the extra performance offered by a Xeon or even a Pentium II or
huge amounts of cache memory.

In fact, the whole point of server arrays and distributed processing is to
allow performance and data redundancy to be independant features to the
actual hardware for any one server.

<773r7m$du @news.cps.intel.com>...

Funny how some people just don't understand that slanderous attacks are
personally abusive and are not allowed according to the guidelines for this
forum.

Now then, if you are going to make such slanderous remarks I sure hope you
can offer up some substantial proof as to any of these slanderous claims.
If it is not worth arguing with me, then why is it worth your time to post
such slanderous messages in a public forum.

Although I must admit that I am not the least surprised by this behavior.
It does fit the pattern for this type of personalty.

Does JCCOMP.COM mean anything to you?

For the record the header info for this slanderous post is

Path: news.cps.intel.com!not-for-mai­l
From: "New-Name" <nos @nospam.com>
Newsgroups: intel.microprocessors.celeron
Subject: Re: celeron 400 vs. 300a Overclocked
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:37:43 -0800
Organization:
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Message-ID: <77464n$hph$1@news.cps.intel.c­om>
References: <36951609.3BFB6828@via.com> <7737j1$4tf$1@news.cps.intel.c­om>
<36957533.1E689 @via.com> <773tmu$f4 @news.cps.intel.com>
<36957D2E.F7D68 @via.com> <773vml$fl @news.cps.intel.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr98.jccomp.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Xref: news.cps.intel.com intel.microprocessors.celeron:­5999

Are those two different memory brands actually certified by the motherboard
manufacturer?

I do believe that the FIC motherboard you mentioned is on the AMD list, but
this is not a guarantee.  MAnufacturers do make changes to the boards and
bios's during the production life of any motherboard.

Have you even discussed this with FIC or AMD?

Sorry to hear you are having such problems, but they really are not that
common in the real world.  We have shipped thousands of socket super 7
motherboards with AMD processors and indeed use them ourselves.  The
majority of these are being used in the business environment as standard
business workstations, accounting workstations, email servers, internet
servers, fax servers, etc., etc., etc..  They are running Win95, Win98,
WinNT, as well as Linux and SCO Unix.  We have not experienced any downtime,
crashes, or the quirkiness that you describe.

RealPlayer, Timbuktu,

case... Were i to make
Celeron I avoided Intel
worthehile...  thanks

reliable as the othe

performancewise. You will

Hehe... Ok Merle since I guess you really think you can be of assitance I will oblidge
you....
    There are no definitive things that i can alwasy call out, the systems are just quirky.
Nt is pretty stable so the OS doesn't crash, but applications crash a lot where the same apps
don't ever crash on other workstations. Lotus Notes, Dreamweaver, RealPlayer, Timbuktu,
Netscape, IE, Outlook, Excell all exhibit frequent crashes. When i say frequent, i mean at
least one app will crash once during the normal busniess day on each of the two machines. For
home use, one crash a day is not unusual but for getting any work done it can be annoying,
especially when the other machines exhibit no such problems. There are two differnt brands of
memory int he two AMD machines so I have to say it is either the motherboard or the
processor. I just think that the socket 7 platform is not as stable as the slot 1
platform..... For home computers, K6-2's make great systems, butfor work.. no way.... I was
hoping the 1MB of L2 cache would make it all worthwhile but I was wrong... One factor int he
decision to go with the K6-2's was to be abel to stay with the same AT case... Were i to make
the choice again I would go with Celeron's on the Tyan AT BX motherboard... Mind you, I am
not complaining, i am taking it as a lesson learned.... Prior to the Celeron I avoided Intel
processors like the plague.... but the cost of the Celeron makes it all worthehile...  thanks
for your consideration....



--
Outlaw98

** Nothing In Spec Inside
    (112MHz bus running Celeron 300a at 504MHz, AGP at 75MHz, PCI at 37MHz)

Try a little common sense though.  If the AMD processors were as quirky as
you are describing, why would more and more consumers keep buying them?  Why
would more and mroe OEM's keep using them?

To date, we have shipped thousands of K6's and K6-2's and we have never
experienced any of this quirkiness that you describe.

In fact, on the factory warranty service side of our business, we have (in
12 years) experienced very few problems that actually ended up being
processor related and every one of those few were related to a failed cpu
cooler fan or (in the case of some 486's and early pentiums) systems
assembled without heat sinks/fans at all.  We have never had to replace an
AMD or Intel processor due to a processor failure, incompatability, or any
such "quirkiness".

Now, on the other hand we have replaced several Cyrix processors, under
warranty, for several manufacturers.