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Grundig tv Davio T51-3101 TOP. Horisontal pulse is missing.Regulator IC 61040 and 61050 in-voltage is ok, but out-voltage is only 1,3v.on both. Right value:61040, 7v. and 61050, 5v. IC 61060 is ok. Also CT 61043 and CT61053 seems to be ok. So what next?

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  • 5 more comments 
  • aarre_ilonen Aug 26, 2010

    Hello,

    Can you tell the position-number of the capacitors, like C50047. Have'nt find nothing wrong in any, but not changed none.

    Tks so far.

  • aarre_ilonen Aug 26, 2010

    Hello,

    Thanks for info, all that is ok, but first thing first, the 8 volt from regulator IC 61040 is missing, so there can not be voltage on oscillator. There is only 1,3 volt and that is the question, why. The same output voltage is also on regulator IC 61050. Input voltage on IC 61040 is higher than normal, about 19 volts,but thats, I think, is because there is no load on output. IC 61060 has correct voltages. Hpe this helps to go on.

    Thanks.

    Aarre

  • aarre_ilonen Aug 26, 2010

    Here I come again.

    As I sayed, there is no voltage E (8volt) on regulator out, and because it's directly coupled to horisontal driver, via transformer, so there is no pulse. The CT 61043 and 61053 are too tiny for me to handle, but on my opinion they are ok. Next question: What voltage should be on R61046/610456 from standby? In my case it's 4,5volts, too low?

    Thanks again.

  • aarre_ilonen Aug 26, 2010

    This is info on back of the tv-set:
    DAVIO 51- 3101 TOP
    VNM CUC 2103

  • aarre_ilonen Aug 27, 2010

    GRUNDIG
    CUC 2103/M
    DAVIO 51 T51 - 3101 TOP
    GCL 3302/VNM





  • aarre_ilonen Aug 27, 2010

    Well, problem isn't solved yet, but will continue to check further using your advice. Thank you.

  • aarre_ilonen Aug 27, 2010

    Sorry, but I've sent couple of times the type of tv, where do the messages go?

    Any way, I'll try to locate possible shortcut, so dont contact anymore. Thank you.

×

3 Answers

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  • Master
  • 12,061 Answers

You either have a Faulty Horizontal Oscillator IC? OR something, on that 1.3 V Output, is dragging that output down and on that output, something drawing too much current, and causing the IC, to not be able to drive to it's full potential, usually 5 V DC in a logic circuit, but if CMOS, then even 12 V DC.
All one can really do, is find the "Cause" of the low output, remove the "Fault" and/or change the IC, too (It's most likely damaged anyway? So I usually do)

You need to get the parameters of the IC & Semi's that you are working with and check the output against what it should be.
Also, you did not indicate if you were using a service manual. If not, then I implore you to obtain one, as without it, one really cannot work effectively.
As I always used to say to my students: Are Your Voltage Correct? Specifically, starting with the PSU, as if this isn't 100%, nothing else can be. Anyway check all voltages around your IC's & Semi's. Also remember the technique of "Cut & Test" too, isolating parts of the suspected circuits, by cutting a trace, or chopping a Leg or Pin, on a Semi or IC, can be useful in tracing where the fault is going. One other thing is Current Measurement, cutting into a circuit, and inserting the Ma meter, into the circuit, will also soon show you where the problem is, reduced current usually indicates a "Short", a high current usually show a disconnection, or "Open" circuit.
Hope this helps.

Posted on Aug 27, 2010

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  • Master
  • 5,138 Answers

CK power supply for Bad capacitors they will be vented,swollen or puffed up on Top 1000uf 16v 220uf 10v 3300uf 10v.

Posted on Aug 25, 2010

  • 1 more comment 
  • ladywinn
    ladywinn Aug 26, 2010

    Normal Standby volt is 5, Google to this website and type in your model number see if they have Free Service Manual for this set Model# will be printed on back of TV

    Encompass Parts Distrbution 1-800-638-3328 I use this company all the Time and have printed out a number of service Manuals.Let me know what your model number is????

  • ladywinn
    ladywinn Aug 27, 2010

    I need to know Name Brand and Model number in order to help you.

  • ladywinn
    ladywinn Aug 27, 2010

    Hello ,

    Without the Service Manual I have no idea what board or locations of ANY Capacitors or what the the volts should be?? In the First place You still have not Posted your Brand Name of TV or the Model # therefore I have no way of knowing which board you are even talking about? Power Supply Board??

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  • Master
  • 5,807 Answers

• Check Horizontal Oscillator to Horizontal Drive.

Horizontal oscillator should have an standby voltage,

and another one when Flyback

oscillates.

• Check vertical Circuits for possible cold solder joints

here are additional guide :

a) basically it has to be acted upon by a supply voltage of at least 95V to work. sample picture


Source:

http://www.fixya.com/support/r3704932-a_basically_it_has_to_be_acted_upon_by_a

Posted on Aug 26, 2010

  • 21 more comments 
  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    Additional guides:

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    As per your request :


  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    Additional info for troubleshooting only, not for long use:



    • Extract the two ( transistors ) in yellow circle, just for the process of eliminating

    the cause of low voltage out.


    • The output should rise ( normally speaking )

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    • Those two Regulators are Normally Off when the unit is plugged In to service outlet.

    Meaning having only a standby voltage or OFF

    • These would activate the circuits on the TV, If those above are checked ,


    And If OK your Flyback might oscillate , so be careful .

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    • One reason , if transistors CT 61043 and CT61053 are OK, and still having a low output ,

    then there is a 5v drive on its base ( when those two ( 2 )


    • If the transistors are extracted and still having a low voltage out ,

    then it could possibly be the regulator itself or the LOAD of the Regulators

    like IC81500

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    Horizontal Oscillator comes from here:

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    •and here are the supply pins of the IC


  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010





    • Extract the two ( transistors ) in yellow circle, just for the process of eliminating

    the cause of low voltage out.


    • The output should rise ( normally speaking )

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    • or hang pins 12 ( + F )

    and pins 45 and 17 ( + E )

    of the Jungle IC


    • temporarily , just to determine that is the cause or not.

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 26, 2010



    Have you checked for voltages here:





    • If there is 5V on the blue arrow indicated both transistors will be ON,

    it will shut down the Output of the Short-Circuit Proof Adjustable Voltage Regulators

    LM317

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010





    For your Question:

    " Next question: What voltage should be on R61046/610456 from standby?


    In my case it's 4,5volts, too low? "


    Answer,


    4.5V is near OK , ( if the unit is on standby mode ).


    These 4.5V will goes down to near 0 V when the Microprocessor turn your TV ON.



    Suggestion:


    a ) Remove the transistor ( CT61043 ) temporarily to find the cause

    b ) or just cut off the collector side that goes to pin 1 of IC LM317


    c ) Get an external power supply , even a 12V power supply will do.


    Unplugged the TV.


    Supply the + 12 V to the Regulator Input , It should show the true output of your

    IC 61040 and IC 61050

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    • Your Circuit will look like these ( even when transistor is connected ) when using External supply

    not from your TV.







    Here is the Original Datasheet :


    LM317 - 3-Terminal Adjustable Regulator

    http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.htm...


    • You can view or you can download it for free

    But you will need a PDF reader to read it, if you downloaded it on your computer



    • like these one


    Adobe - Adobe Reader

    http://www.google.com.ph/search?q=get+ad...


    • Here is the schematics




    Full details on the web page or on the PDF copy

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    • And your Horizontal Oscillator should run ( Normally speaking )

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    Here is the snapshot on the page:


  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    Additional info , also from the PDF copy





    These regulator is very common to Regulated Power Supply


    Here are some other applications :


    http://www.instructables.com/id/LM317T-1...

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    Another additional things to check:

    Near your


    Flyback


    there is a 7W resistor






    Have a check on it .


    • Check for open , check for possible cold solder joint


    • Check the horizontal output transistor ( T53001 ) , too

    and post

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    • And here are the critical joints to check:

    ( to insure full operation )


  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    And here are additional guides for you to have :




    Troubleshooting








    Transistors




    On the number of 2 of the link above, describe how the transistor shuts

    down your regulator


    When there is a voltage applied on its base , it will turn ON ( acts as a switch , shorting the

    Collector and emitter pins ) Normally speaking.

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 27, 2010



    • Even a small converter or power supply will do ,

    Inject a supply on the input of the Regulator and measure the output.


    You can try these troubleshooting and have no fear that TV will turn ON.


    • An external supply of 12V can not fully turn On your TV, and you can safely check the load

    afterwards.

    •Just pretend you are assembling a regulated power supply with no automatic cut-off.

    Your Unregulated Converter will be connected to the TV Regulators for troubleshooting.




    • In these case , there will be no supply on the base of the transistors ( 0 V ) and the Regulator

    can work freely. ( without extracting the blocking transistor )


    Have you downloaded the pdf file? for LM317?

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 28, 2010




    I just hope my solutions are very clear to you, If you have any clarifications on the solutions

    I have presented please post back to help you further.


    Have you downloaded the design for LM317 from the Manufacturer?

  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 28, 2010




    • A Safer Shortcut Way is to connect an External Supply 12V on the

    positive side of the Diode D61056


    here is the schematics to further help you:


  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 28, 2010



    • It will not run , if you will not connect the negative too.

    have a note on the polarity of the power supply,


    • You can connect negative ( external power supply ) on the negative side of the

    capacitor C61057 or to the CRT ground strap or to the tuner chassis ground

    ( not from the ant input )


    Like one of these ( sample only )


  • Rommel Cana
    Rommel Cana Aug 29, 2010






    Thanks for rejecting assistance:




    • Even with an external power supply there might be still voltages that may cut off the supply

    of your regulator.


    Not unless you will cut off the 5V out or 5V Input ( regulator )


    • But these steps are safer than working with higher voltages , that may cause injury when

    troubleshooting ( when flyback oscillate ).


    • In these case also you will probably notice how the TV system works, without the

    high voltage running.

    thanks you been very kind.


    • Most often I use an adjustable home made regulated power supply ( with meter )

    before I check on the Deflection Circuits to check for Hor.Osc Circuits if it is running.



    here is a link for your service manual


    Grundig #65 Service manuals,repair manuals,schematic diagram
    http://www.sdvis.com/manuals/detail-7711...

    only with a fee


    Good luck on your troubleshooting!

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