Question about Goodman GMS90703BXA Heater

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Goodman furnace updraft with A/C on top. Drain tray on A/C (plastic) cracked causing water to leak to floor. On inspection, furnace heat tubes on back show hot spot immediately under the crack in A/C tray which was warped from heat. Who should bear responsibility for failure - A/C? or Furnace?

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  • 2 more comments 
  • blueghostgre Jun 04, 2010

    The AC drain tray should be made of metal of course Blame it on the engineer who designed this & the QC managers for ACCEPTING THIS toy like part stuffed into your furnace
    Jun 04, 2010 - The A/C was a Lennox 5 ton.
    The burnish in the furnace tube suggests overheating. the tubes have varying degrees of overheat.
    The plastic on the A/C is high density. The warp on A/C tray is directly above the furnace tube with the greatest degree of heat burnish.
    1. Should the furnace tube show that much heat damage while the others don't?
    2. The WARPED plastic on A/C suggests EXTREME heat in that spot. The remainder of the tray shows no warp whatsoever.
    What SHOULD have been the outcome and why?

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    One problem and no straight answers.

    Are you up to the task?

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    Many unanswered questions........ Poor service on FixYa's part. Totally disappointed.

  • blueghostgre Jun 07, 2010

    What a crock of BS'ers.

    Waste of time and money. Guess that's why you are behind the computer instead of on the job - You know?

    THOSE WHO CAN'T DO, TEACH!!!"

    Sadly, you didn't teach me a damn thing and what information you provided of value had to be extracted................

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7 Answers

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Heat caused damage...simple to understand here! The heat exchanger has been compromised at one time and the drain pan was designed for the AC in this case and not a combination Heat an AC. I would add that the rudeness of this person is completely consistant with there question. It is Chewed up! You want better answers then ask better questions. You want anything more then what I read for solutions then it is time for you to reach for your billfold because your free nickels worth is over!

Posted on Aug 29, 2010

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Neither maker is at fault if the units were simply placed too close together.
Anyone should already assume it would be wrong to place an AC unit directly on top of a furnace unit, unless the makers were so foolish as to claim you can.

Posted on Aug 23, 2010

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Hi, I have read through all of the questions and answers. So here is what I have to say about the mess. Normally the condensation pan is made of sheet metal to catch the moisture and has a 3/4" adapter for it to drain through the condensate line, but they went with a high grade of plastic, nothing wrong with this as I have replaced more of the sheet metal trays by making them, because of rusting out pans! The evaporator coil sets on top of the furnace with the pan, completely separate from the furnace, for cooling only. Your pan was cracked 2 years ago and was only repaired with whatever! The tech should have addressed the problem as apparently, your burners are putting out to much heat in that area to cause this. It is simple. When this furnace was installed, we do what all companies are ( supposed ) to do, a start up on both heating and cooling. Now, when doing a heating start up, the inlet gas pressure must not exceed 1/2 p.s.i. !!! Outlet or manifold pressure must not exceed the gas vale rating which would be 3.4" of water column. Apparently, the manifold pressure was not set properly, and the TD was not checked to see what the unit was putting out. Now, if all of the things I have just said were checked and were with in spec's, there was a failure somewhere in the furnace, not the A/C, a plugged or crack in the heat exchanger, a internal problem with the gas valve, and even a problem with the Gas Companies meter! The flue pipe restricted, maybe a bird nested in it during the summer, believe me it happens. The furnace should bare the responsibility for the failure of the condensate pan. This furnace needs to be checked, heat exchanger, burner flames, inlet and outlet/manifold pressure. TD of the return and supply air in the heating mode. I have had to plug off a burner on a brand new 5 ton Bryant unit due to the fact that the unit was sized right, but, the TD was off the charts and the return air would trip the klixon limit in the blower compartment! This was a new R-410a/gas roof pack unit. This solved the problem. You do have a furnace problem, who to blame, don't know! Blame somethings not right with the furnace as it caused the pan to melt, warp, crack, and leak. It needs a good going over to find out why that one area was hotter which like I said could be a number of things. You can have a sheet metal condensate pan made with the 3/4" male or female adapter on it at a sheet metal shop for around $25.00 to $30.00. First solve the to much heat problem. Heat rises, and it the heat gases are not expelled from the unit through the flue with the help of the inducer or combustion motor, it will rise and start to do damage above and beyond. I hope I have been of help to you on this. We do have some awesome techs here on Fixya, and it can be difficult to troubleshoot a unit on line. I have been in the field for 33 years and I am still out there, 24/7 if my business needs me. I wish you the best.
Sincerely,
Shastalaker7
A/C, Heating, & Refrigeration Contractor

Posted on Aug 01, 2010

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Hi,
You would need to look at the warrenty of the product from the manufacturer of this whole unit. If they were purchased as individual parts then each manufacturer is responsible for their compinents.

However, you must have a warrenty on the product to be able to bear any responsibilty to the manufacturer.

If you do have a warrenty then they should up hold it, and they should also have a solution to the fault. It will be pointless to replace the tray only to have it reoccur again. It seems as though they have missed out putting a insulation of some sort between the heat source which evaporates the water in the tray.

Hope this helps, let me know how you get on.

Thanks

Jason

Posted on Jun 05, 2010

  • 2 more comments 
  • Jason Maurirere
    Jason Maurirere Jun 05, 2010

    It sounds as if the burners are over heating thus causing this concerntrated area to heat up.

    The condensor is over working an it could be one a many problems.



    The main faults are:



    Lack of proper sealing in the a/c compartment which is making the unit contiuall work at the specified tempreture.

    The thermoswicth is faulty an causing the condensor/motor to over work and not have time to cool down before restarting.

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    I've asked several direct questions and have yet to receive specific answers.


    I don't need a bunch of hyperbola.


    Please provide specific answers to each of the questions asked and quit skirting the issues.


    Should the problem have been foreseen and, if so, what should have been done.


    Assuming the possible problem was not foreseen but diagnosed after the fact, what should have been the appropriate course of action, repair the A/C dish, check the heat output on the heat scarred tube on the furnace, place an insulation barrier between the furnace and A/C, or go whole hog and replace the A/C unit?



  • Jason Maurirere
    Jason Maurirere Jun 06, 2010

    Well I think your comments are unfair, purely because of how you have been asking the questions.

    1. In the first instance you ask WHO is to blame meaning someone not something.

    2. Then your asking which components are at fault but then expecting to know the answer to a solution before it actually exsits which is not realistic.



    I gave you 3 specific answers to all 3 questions you ask in the context in which you asked them.



    If you need a straight answer to a problem then you need to ask the question in the correct manner before the question can be answered in the manner you want it answered in.



    Regards



    Jason

  • yousuckat Sep 09, 2010

    What are the static pressures? <= is the air-flow over the heat exchanger propper??<=Did you install unit right above the heat exchanger??? Do you know how to use spell-check??? You leave the most important perameters out and expect people to know the situation. Hire a real HVAC mechanic before you burn the house down.

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Hello,

The water that flow on the floor is generated from the A/C because the Furnace do not generate water during and after functioning it only generate heat what brings (generate) out water during and after his function the A/C

what an furnace means is an enclosure in which energy in a nonthermal form is converted to heat, especially such an enclosure in which heat is generated by the combustion

the water is from the A/C.

Thank you and thanks for using fixya.

Posted on Jun 05, 2010

  • yousuckat Sep 09, 2010

    Dude!, are you french? or are you from the southern states I can barely follow your grammar. Thanks for the furnace lesson.....I think......

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Hello,

The furnace should bear the responsibility because it is the heat from the furnace that actually crack the ac drain tray.

So the furnace should bear the responsibility.

Take care.


Posted on Jun 05, 2010

  • yousuckat Sep 09, 2010

    No, your wrong too..........

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The AC drain tray should be made of metal of course Blame it on the engineer who designed this & the QC managers for ACCEPTING THIS toy like part stuffed into your furnace

Posted on Jun 04, 2010

  • 8 more comments 
  • blueghostgre Jun 04, 2010

    The A/C was a Lennox 5 ton.


    The burnish in the furnace tube suggests overheating. the tubes have varying degrees of overheat.


    The plastic on the A/C is high density. The warp on A/C tray is directly above the furnace tube with the greatest degree of heat burnish.


    1. Should the furnace tube show that much heat damage while the others don't?


    2. The WARPED plastic on A/C suggests EXTREME heat in that spot. The remainder of the tray shows no warp whatsoever.


    What SHOULD have been the outcome and why?



  • frank thomas wilson
    frank thomas wilson Jun 04, 2010

    Was the central air added in using a different manufacturers componets?If so you can expect thissortof thing to happen with mixed brands

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    The A?C was first and added natural gas furnace (has separate boiler system beforehand.


    1. Should the furnace supplier advised me of potential for problem?


    2. Should the furnace supplier installed a buffer to diffuse heat to A/C tray?


    3. Should the furnace heater tubes show equal heat discoloration as opposed to radical differences?


    4. A service call two years ago revealed crack. JB Weld applied and succeeded one year. Should supplier at the onset suggested vacuuming system and removing A/C unit for repairs to overheated area
    and placing barrier between A/C and overheating furnace tube?

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    The A?C was first and added natural gas furnace (has separate boiler system beforehand.
    1. Should the furnace supplier advised me of potential for problem?
    2. Should the furnace supplier installed a buffer to diffuse heat to A/C tray?
    3. Should the furnace heater tubes show equal heat discoloration as opposed to radical differences?
    4. A service call two years ago revealed crack. JB Weld applied and succeeded one year. Should supplier at the onset suggested vacuuming system and removing A/C unit for repairs to overheated area and placing barrier between A/C and overheating furnace tube?


  • frank thomas wilson
    frank thomas wilson Jun 05, 2010

    I thought it had no pedigree.. That is when trouble occurs
    You were lucking enough to have the plastic tray last a year with epoxy from JB Weld
    I would simply have a tray made of metal and git rid of the plastic one

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    I asked additional questions in attempt to get definitive answer to initial question, please respond.

  • blueghostgre Jun 05, 2010

    When problem was first diagnosed, I asked about installing metal tray under plastic tray and was told it couldn't be done.


    was the technician wrong in saying such as it would be a no-brainer after seeing the tray after it was removed today.


    BOTTOM LINE QUESTION - What should the installer have done in any of the situations previously addressed?


    Was I taken advantage of by the "experts"?

  • frank thomas wilson
    frank thomas wilson Jun 05, 2010

    Have a metal tray made to replace the plastic one
    Nothing else can be done for what is configured to what you have

  • Kirk Augustin
    Kirk Augustin Aug 22, 2010

    Goodman has a bad reputation so I have never worked with them.
    AC should never be installed that close to the heating tubes.
    There should always be a spacer, but that is an installation issue, not manufacturer.
    All heater tubes should reach equal temperatures, and orifices should be checked as to why they are not.
    Supplier should recommend a minimum safe offset from heater tubes for AC when plastic part supplied.

  • yousuckat Sep 09, 2010

    JB Weld on what??? You can't patch a heat exchanger!!

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