Question about Bosch WFK 2401

1 Answer

Washer fills and drains, but the drum does not run

The washer fills and drains, but the drum does not turn to wash or spin. I can turn it by hand, and all the lights seem to work fine. There are no strange noises. The door will lock, but then unlock after running the cancel cycle.

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  • 11 more comments 
  • joe13q May 04, 2010

    Thanks Macmarkus.

    The washer has been in place and running great for 8+ years. This morning, I ran one load just fine. I loaded in the second and prepared to head out of the house when I noticed that it had filled, but was not doing anything else. I canceled the cycle and it drained, so I took the clothes out of the washer and tried again. It filled, and made light clicking sounds but the drum would not turn.

    I then drained it again, and then turned the drum by hand. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. I tried just a spin cycle, but the drum would not turn.

    I hope this makes things a little more clear.

  • joe13q May 04, 2010

    This is very helpful. Hopefully, I will be able to check things out tomorrow. I have a 16 month old at home with me, so things of this nature take longer than they used to.

    Can you /anyone point me to a good service manual or description of how to remove the back panel? I assume it will be pretty straight forward with some standard tools, but before I dive in, it would be nice to know what I am getting myself into.

  • joe13q May 05, 2010

    Thanks for much for your help. I took the back panel off, and the belt seems fine. There is a small amount of a black powdery substance around the perimeter of the drive wheel, which is the only thing that looks out of place. The wires all seem tight, etc. I had sure hoped it was the belt, but that seems tight to me, I can squeeze it about 1/2 inch towards itself, which does not seem like a lot to me.

  • joe13q May 05, 2010

    Thanks for much for your help. I took the back panel off, and the belt seems fine. There is a small amount of a black powdery substance around the perimeter of the drive wheel, which is the only thing that looks out of place. The wires all seem tight, etc. I had sure hoped it was the belt, but that seems tight to me, I can squeeze it about 1/2 inch towards itself, which does not seem like a lot to me.

  • joe13q May 05, 2010

    One other comment of note, we started the washer up again on the spin cycle and the time showed 6 minutes, the pump ran and then there was a clicking sound as the timer advanced to 5, it then dropped to 1 and the cycle ended without spinning, just the clicking sound.

    On the last successful washing, I noticed that the timer dropped to 1 when it was saying much higher (perhaps, 5 or 4). I had never seen the drum turn when the counter as lower than 2.

  • joe13q May 05, 2010

    glad about the storm passing. They tend to roll through here in the afternoons.

    I have a meter (we have a camper, so one became necessary). I checked and verified 240 coming in, but was not 100% sure where to look for the fuses and whether I had to take the top panel piece off to get to them. It looks like I might have to.

    Thanks for all your help so far.

  • joe13q May 07, 2010

    Sorry to be a pest, but I was hoping to get some further assistance with this. The cat loves the appliance in the middle of the floor - the wife - not so much!

    I took the top off and saw all the electronics, but without a better diagram, I can't figure out where to look for the fuses.

  • joe13q May 08, 2010

    Thank you so much for your help. I would love to get that manual you talked about too. My e-mail address is joe13q at gmail dot com.

    We might be on to something. I located the wiring harness and noted there were 7 wires attached to it, but after a while I located 3 pairs. The slot closest to the bottom of the motor has not wire attached to it when the harness is in place. The next post was paired with the next one up and it read 16.4 ohm. The next pair would give no reading (which might be the suspect ones. The final pair (5-6) gave a reading of 1.7 ohm. Hopefully this means something to you.

    Again thanks for all your help!

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 11, 2010

    Hello Joe,

    Welcome to Fixya ! I would just like to request a clarification of your situation. Was the machine working normal prior to this to your knowledge ? Meaning this isn't your first time using it.

    Is the drain hose upright in a secure standpipe at least 36" from the floor/ground without and addition pedestal the machine may be on ? ( the line must be above the water level in the machine to prevent siphoning, this includes making sure the drain hose isn't pushed down the standpipe too far ).

    Let me know and we'll move forward from here.

    Macmarkus :)

  • joe13q May 12, 2010

    Well the washer is working again. Not sure how or why, but it is.

    I tried to determine if pins 3-4 were attached to the motor brushes, but since they are on the opposite side of the connector, it was impossible to tell, but they felt like they might be.

    I reconnected the wiring harness and decided to run the diagnostic test. It (not surprisingly) revealed that code 08 (motor) was at fault. I turned the washer off to reset the test mode and then realized that I could run a test for just the motor and pump.

    When I entered the test mode again, it gave no error message (code 00), I thought this was strange, so I ran the test and it completed successfully. I then ran an empty washer with slow rinse and spin and that worked fine. I have since run two loads and all seems to be working now.

    I wonder if I am just working on borrowed time of if by disconnecting and then reconnecting the wiring harness I might have done something. At least now, it will be easy to come back to the motor when the time comes.

    Thanks Mark for all your help. You were great!

  • joe13q Jun 09, 2010

    Looks like the motor lasted about a month, and yesterday while starting the 4th load of the day, the motor stopped turning. The diagnostic keeps confirming 08 (motor) code. I believe I need to check the brushes which I understand are on the opposite side of the motor from the rear access panel. Is there a way to check these without removing the motor?

  • joe13q Jun 12, 2010

    This is great (ABSOLUTELY GREAT) stuff. It will likely be 10 days or so before I can pull the washer apart, so I am wondering if it may not just make sense to order the brushes and when I take the back of the washer, just replace them. It sure seems like the likely problem area at this point. My question is, how likely is it that the entire motor is shot, and should I just order the whole thing?

    Thank you so much for your help so far - boy I wish I could find this kind of assistance with an RV refrigerator that went on the fritz last weekend!

  • joe13q Jun 23, 2010

    TaDa!! Replaced the brushes (about $43 from repair clinic) and all seems well. The motor brushes were worn to about 1/4", so they seemed a promising culprit when we got them removed. All in all the replacement took just longer than an 18 month old's morning nap (about 1.5 hours). The hardest part was figuring out how to get the socket wrench to the back side of the motor to get the short bolt out. There was just enough room to get 1 click on the ratchet and get the bolt freed and out.

    Thanks a million to Mark M. (macmarkus) for all his help. I could never have figured this out on my own, and he saved me $$.

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  • Bosch Master
  • 2,605 Answers

Joe, Thanks for the prompt reply. OK, it sounds like one of two possible culprits, 1) the belt has broke or spun off. 2) the brushes in the motor are worn...although the initial symptom of this is typically manifest in "no spin" so I'd lean towards a broken or spun off belt. You'll need to remove the rear panel for a visual inspection to confirm or dismiss either possibilities. Let me know what you find out. If the belt is off check for possible reasons "why" ? It can be a loose drive pulley, ( the large one, not the motor pulley ) or simply an unbalanced load on the previous wash, just a heads up since you're looking around in there anyway. Of course the belt itself may be worn ( stretched ) or broke and thus at fault as well. Good luck, I'll watch your post. macmarkus :)

Posted on May 04, 2010

  • 7 more comments 
  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 04, 2010

    Hi again Joe,

    I have an older brother named Joe, I like that name ha ha ! Sorry for my delayed reply, our neck of the woods is in the middle of a winter storm, hence we where without electricity for almost 2hrs. I swear I'm going to pick up everything and head south on of these days ha ha !

    I digress,

    To access the drive system area is pretty straight forward, just remember to use safety **TURN OFF THE BREAKER AT THE SERVICE PANEL** this is a much better and safer alternative to actually unplugging it from the wall or dryer, whichever applies. I'll quickly tell you, "why" ? These machines are very vulnerable to static charge as are most modern appliances, hence by unlugging the machine from the wall you directly make it even more vulnerable by removing the built in "ground" system. I don't know what your level of experience is with electronic devices Joe, but the number one cause of failure in modern electronic devices is "ESD" or electro-static discharge. Another good habit is to discharge yourself against the back of the machine panel before servicing...again while the machine is powerless but plugged in/grounded. Now you can remove the crews around the perimeter of the panel and it should simply pull off. There you go, you're in. Check around for loose wires, hoses anything else while in there, just a good thorough inspection.

    I'm not sure when you'll receive this, but I can appreciate what comes with having a small child, been there done that And yes very busy but tremendously rewarding...nothing like being a father. All though it's been a while, god love him he's almost 24 now, but I'm still his father. Where does time go Joe ? Ha Ha !

    Also as another option or additional help if you'd like I have a complete training guide I can send you via email ( it is actually for the later "wfl & wfr" series Bosch, but essentially identical and is approx. 6mb of "pdf" literature ) if you want to post it here. As a rule of being a Fixya expert I don't think I'm allowed to post mine unfortunately, or I would.

    Let me know how it goes and what you find out I'm glad to able to help.

    Good luck.

    Macmarkus :)

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 05, 2010

    Hey Joe,



    The storm has passed and I`m at work, but I have a few minutes to reply via my netbook, sooo...



    Do you have a multimeter or any kind of voltage meter/ohm meter ? Since you`ve indicated it fills and "clicks" to the drain cycle I`m wondering if a fuse is gone and perhap`s you`re only getting 120vac and not 240vac.



    The fuses are on the upper left hand side when facing the back. Let me know because this will also enable you to check the motor for voltage, if you think that is something you can take on.



    Mark

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 08, 2010

    Hey Joe,



    Sorry I wasn`t able to reply sooner, I just got home recently ( about 6 pm Mtn ) and my battery on my netbook was dead by noon today.



    I have to say your washer may not have fuses in it, I sometimes loose track from model to model and year to year, at one point all the Bosch machines Incorporated fuses. However, if you don`t see fuses right where the power cord enters the back of the unit, there aren`t any. I hope you didn`t spend too much time searching.



    After considering your symptoms, (the drain pump does drain) this would suggest you are getting 240vac anyway, I think you should focus on the motor brushes. Normally this would occur to me much sooner looking at the unit on-site, but from afar it can become more of a challenge for obvious reasons, I hope you understand.



    **again make sure your breaker is in the "off" position at your homes service panel before performing any service, test or repairs**



    If you look at the wire harness plug at the motor, you`ll note it is a push on type harness. Remove the male end of the harness ( the end coming from the control board ) and check the ohm value between these pins on the female harness on the motor ( there will 6 pins, as a rule pin #1 is at the bottom ) you should have values similar to these...



    Pins 1-2 = 14 to 35 ohms

    Pins 3-4 = 1.5 to 10 ohms

    Pins 5-6 = 0.7 to 2.1 ohms





    Let me know what you find Joe, I suspect you`ll find at least one of these values will be way off or even "infinite" (open = no good).



    I`ll watch for your reply and try to be available asap when I see it.



    good luck



    regards,



    Mark M.

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 09, 2010

    Hey,

    Can you let me know if and when you get that email I sent with the manual in it Joe. I sent it last night around 8pm mtn I think it was.

    Thanks,

    Mark M.

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 12, 2010

    Hi Joe,

    That is great news ! I'm not sure when you posted but I just read it now and it is about 11:50pm mtn. Awesome though, you may be correct in your assesment...a loose connection. These front loaders especially with the speeds they spin, hence vibrate, it is concievable wires/screws/bolts come loose and cause intermittent or persistent issues. Keep an eye on it and at least now you've got hands on experience right ? Ha Ha ! I wish I'd found that diagnostic sheet for you sooner, they are an awesome tool.

    You're welcome by the way, it was a great refresher course for me as well, I don't see many of those where I service anymore ( at sears ) like I did working for bosch.

    Best of luck going forward.

    Regards.

    Mark M. (macmarkus) :)

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald May 12, 2010

    ( Not sure if this a double post...if so, sorry )

    Hi Joe,

    That is great news ! I'm not sure when you posted but I just read it now and it is about 11:50pm mtn. Awesome though, you may be correct in your assesment...a loose connection. These front loaders especially with the speeds they spin, hence vibrate, it is concievable wires/screws/bolts come loose and cause intermittent or persistent issues. Keep an eye on it and at least now you've got hands on experience right ? Ha Ha ! I wish I'd found that diagnostic sheet for you sooner, they are an awesome tool.

    You're welcome by the way, it was a great refresher course for me as well, I don't see many of those where I service anymore ( at sears ) like I did working for bosch.

    Best of luck going forward.

    Regards.

    Mark M. (macmarkus) :)

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald Jun 11, 2010

    Hi Joe, sorry I couldn't reply sooner. Fact is I only got your eamil late last night as I was out of town for a while until last evening and while I was checking in via my iphone from time to time, I hadn't seen your post. Anyway, yes it sounds like the motor may finally have given up. I don't recall off the top of my mind the two pins for the brushes, but I think it's 4-5. You would like have an easier time removing the motor as I always do anyway so I wouldn't be much good at instructing you how to do it differently. Once you have the motor out you'll be able to visually trace the wires going to the brushes and inspect the condition of the motor armeture. This is where the brushes make contact, and as long as it isn't damaged too much it'll be fine.

    I will be back home again this evening and I will check back then. I will also try and examine the wfk I have in my garage regarding the brush wires, but likely by then you'll have gotten to that point. Good luck and I'll talk later.

    Macmarkus :)

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald Jun 12, 2010

    Joe,



    I'm not sure if you received my previous post. In any event, I'm working on a "tip" I'm going to post on here. It seems there is a mis-conception going around that the brushes on these unit's cannot be replaced, I'm going to hopefully put a stop to that...or attempt to.



    The part number for the brushes is 1043249 and are available at "repairclinic.com" for approx. $45US. One can also opt. to purchase the complete motor for about $270US, part number 416398.



    I'm going to try and put it together tomorrow including detailed guidance and photo's, look for sometime tomorrow evening or Sunday at the latest. It will apply to all "WFK", "WFL, and "WFR" model Bosch washers.



    macmarkus :)

  • Mark MacDonald
    Mark MacDonald Jun 12, 2010

    Joe,

    Unfortunately I don't have much experience with RV unit's other than the RV washers/dryer combo's and the microwaves, but the fridges are usually absorption type fridges ( meaning they use propane to heat ammonia in the system. So although the principle to residential is the same, it's more of a "no experience with them" issue for me ). Is it a standing pilot ignition or electronic, or do you know ? If it is standing pilot it may just be a pilot not lit or a faulty thermocouple ?

    Anyway back to something I do know, your washer. You can pull the motor out and inspect the armature, if it isn't burnt up or showning signs of alot of "arcing" and "pitted" from the worn brushes, it is 99% likely to be O.K. I would simply order brushes if I was a gambler and my own money was at stake. Since I am not a gambler and it is your money, I think it's best you visually inspect the unit. I will have photo's up soon on what to look for, i.e. good vs. bad.

    Good luck and sorry I can't offer much with the RV fridge. I would think someone on here at "fixya" would know though. Have you posted your issue ?

    macmarkus :)

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