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1 Thermostat calls for heat when below set temp. 2 Small blower motor in flew plenum turns on to evacuate the burners. 3 ~15 secs later the gas valve opens & gas flows from gas jets for ~3 secs 4 The electric ignitor never sparks or even attempts to then gas flow stops. 5 During that 3 sec window when gas does flow, the burners can be manually lighted with an extended butane lighter and will burn with an appropriate and normal blue flame until the Thermostat reaches the set temp. 6 The non-working of the electric ignitor would seem to be the problem. 7 Using an ohm meter. the ignitor is not grounding to the furnace (infinite resistance) 8 Using an ohm meter, the single electrical wire to the ignitor assy. shows full continuity (near 0 resistance) through ignitor assy. 9 Using volt meter, never see any DC voltage to ignitor. 10 Using volt meter there is always present a 70 voltage AC. Not nearly great enough to create a spark. Would also expect the ignitor voltage to be DC. Suspecting that the 70 volts AC is a floating voltage with no potential to pass current at 70 vac. 11 Any insight or guidance would be appreciated.

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  • herreemp Feb 02, 2010

    Thanks for such a prompt response! I saw the grey box you spoke of but had not explored it. I have an Associates degree in electronics and have spent 25+ years Field Service on research instrumentation. I did recognize that an extremely high voltage would be required but couldn't visually identify a likely source for it and prudent common sense would dictate play safe and ask; don't just clumsily explore with ignorance as a companion. I won't be able to follow up on your information until tomorrow or Wednesday but the direction you led me to sounds like something I can address. I would like to email you later with the results. Out of curiosity, would I be correct that it is a DC voltage; A very high voltage but low current similar to what fires an auto spark plug. Also thanks for your comment about not finding that voltage with my volt meter. I had not considered it at the time and would have much regretted damaging my Fluke 87, as they are not cheap. Thanks again.

  • herreemp Feb 02, 2010

    Will keep advised. Thanks for the compliment on giving details.

  • herreemp Feb 02, 2010

    Very, very good in providing direction to what should be the repair to the problem, but won't be able to address the repair solution till maybe Wednesday 02/03/2010 and know for sure.

  • herreemp Feb 04, 2010

    ~9:00 CST Wed. 02/03/2010


    Thanks for your follow up. Had the time to follow your suggestion and work on the furnace. Let me back up as I may have caused a misunderstanding. The furnace, a York Diamond 80, has 2 removable front covers. The only cover that I had removed was the upper cover exposing the burners and gas valve/metering/control assembly and yes there was a grey box on the right side of the furnace chassis wall which sounded like what you were describing. I had not previously paid much attention to that box because of it's shape & size it looked more like an enclosure for the electrical line connections running to the furnace & those within the furnace. On inspection that is just what it was.


    The wire to the ignitor is purple. I followed it from the ignitor to where it passed through a hole as one in a bundle of wires into the lower chamber containing the blower motor assembly. I removed that lower cover and found what you must have been referring to. It was a white electronic control assembly, modular by design about 4" wide by about 6" long by about 1" deep and fastened to a metal plate at the corners. Wires on the left edge were slide on and molex style plug type. Wires on the bottom edge were small gauge screw down. The module had 2 manufacturer model numbers. A White Rodgers 50A50-230 id# and a York 031-01250 id#. I did an internet search and found 2 replacements described as universal replacements. One was a white electronic modular design that was dimensionally a bit different and connection wise also a bit different. Was the photo accurate; I don't know. The other universal replacement was a PCB assembly with wired plug adapters. Replacement prices seemed to run from ~$120 to ~$190.


    I live in St. Louis, MO and weather wise our lows are about 20 with daytime highs of about 40. I normally keep the house set at 62. It's when it falls to ~54 that I draw the line, but since I'm able to get the furnace lighted manually and running, I'm looking to explore my repair options and keep expenses down. Maybe that's why 62 degree house temp doesn't feel so uncomfortable!


    Anyway, any ideas on appropriate replacement electronic module substitutions. Websites to explore. Source for repair manual with theory of operation. Should I just remove the module and carry it in to a heating & cooling dealer. Or, just **** it up and call in a repair service. It's just that I've always enjoyed repairing things myself and the learning that goes with it


    I've worked on more complicated research instrumentation involving 900 degree ovens, automated acetylene / air burners, pumps, lasers, cooling systems, valve assemblies, etc. Difference is that I always had the support materials that explained the theory of operation and the repair and calibration service procedures. Sorry for being so verbose. Thanks for your patience and help.

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Hello,
The circuit board/or gray box that controls everything also has a high voltage spark ignition built into it. This has gone bad... It's probably good because the high voltage spark can fry some meters... :-)
You will need to replace that control. You can buy them online or most any good HVAC guy will have one on his truck.

Heatman101

Posted on Feb 02, 2010

  • 1 more comment 
  • D. Floyd Kolb
    D. Floyd Kolb Feb 02, 2010

    Thanks for clearly spelling out your problem, it makes things so much easier... :-)



    Heatman101

  • D. Floyd Kolb
    D. Floyd Kolb Feb 02, 2010

    You can comment back here at anytime, I will get an email that you commented. FixYa is very strict about emails.. can't blame them they don't want business going on outside of the site. The voltage I believe is still A/C at 10-14,000 voltage and yes very small amps.



    Glad you still have a working meter..also..



    You would not believe how many people just post something like "my furnace don't light" Okay??? So how can I help you?? They expect us to just use mental telepathy or something to figure out their problem... no I'm not a Psychic thank you... :-)



    Have a great evening if it is that where you are...



    Heatman101

  • D. Floyd Kolb
    D. Floyd Kolb Feb 04, 2010

    Yes, I see you found the control... from your desription of the purple wire I think that you have the nitride ignitor, that one would have the single bar that glows as oppased with the carbide that will have like a double u ignitor...

    The place where I get most of my parts like this is www,grainger.com the part would be this







    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3...



    The number would be a bit different but it is a universal replacement part.



    You can easily change this aprt, you just need to do it wire by wire or make sure that you mark the wires well before removing them.

    Believe me it is a bugger to get the wires off and them forget how to replace them... :-)

    There should be a schematic right inside the lower cover if you should need it...it sounds like you would be able to easily understand that... most people would not have a clue what a schematic is...



    Good luck...I'm glad it only hits -20 or -30 her once every couple of years...



    Heatman101

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Bryant programmable thermostat doesnt keep the temp have to put it on fan instead of auto


My guess is that you have gas heat. If this is the case, sounds to me like your main control board or depending on age of furnace, fan controller is not working. With gas furnaces, it utilizes 2 fan speeds. High for cooling, & Low for heating. Your thermostat only controls the High speed - switches when you turn your fan on & when there is a call for cooling. The only other thing I can think of is it is possible that the Low speed windings on the blower motor are open causing it to not turn on. Most motors have 3 to 4 speeds & only 2 are used. Switch the heat motor wires in the furnace (on the control board) with one that is on a spare terminal.

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Furnace cuts off before reaching set temp.


You can make sure it is not the thermostat by crossing or jumping the R and W terminals (or associated wires) together. This will keep the furnace calling for heat. As it is approaching set temperature, get in front of the furnace and inspect the air filter to make sure it is clean, watch the control module for any error codes that may be turning off the system prematurely.

On a call for heat, the 24 volt thermostat sends a signal to the control module. The control module will indicate a call for heat with a light on the control either blinking or remain solid depending upon model. The inducer (exhaust) blower will purge all gasses from the furnace and pressurize a pressure switch. Once the pressure switch tells the module to continue, the electronic ignition will energize and send 120 volts to the igniter. The igniter will glow and you will be able to see it if viewed thru the small inspection port. Once the igniter gets hot enough, it sends a signal to the module opening up the gas valve (24 volts). Either a pilot will come on or the burner tube will ignite then spread the flame to all burners. Lastly a safety sensor will be looking for a certain temperature within a few seconds and the furnace will continue to operate and the room air blower will turn on in a minute or two.

What could go wrong? The unit will not run if there is no signal from the thermostat (bad thermostat or broken wire), the control module does not sense a signal from the thermostat (bad control), the inducer does not energize (bad motor), the pressure switch does not close (blocked vent piping, bad switch, plugged condensate hose), the igniter does not energize (bad control, bad igniter), the gas valve does not open or there is no gas (bad gas valve, broken wire, no gas), the pilot does not light (dirty pilot), the burner does not light (bad burner, plugged orifice, not enough combustion air), the flame does not spread to each burner (bad flame spreader, dirty flame spreader, more bad burners), the flame safety sensor does not detect flame (dirty or bad flame spreader, bad flame sensor, broken wire, bad control), or the room air blower does not energize (bad fan motor, bad control).

Mar 07, 2010 | Honeywell Programmable Thermostat Heater

1 Answer

Thermostat calls and from time to time won't ignite


I would first look at any wire connections both at the furnace and the thermostat. Then I would replace the thermostat. Check the units control board when it does not start for an error code. There should be a small viewing port to look into the furnace cabinet to see the control board.

On a call for heat, the 24 volt thermostat sends a signal to the control module. The control module will indicate a call for heat with a light on the control either blinking or remain solid depending upon model. The inducer (exhaust) blower will purge all gasses from the furnace and pressurize a pressure switch. Once the pressure switch tells the module to continue, the electronic ignition will energize and send 120 volts to the igniter. The igniter will glow and you will be able to see it if viewed thru the small inspection port. Once the igniter gets hot enough, it sends a signal to the module opening up the gas valve (24 volts). Either a pilot will come on or the burner tube will ignite then spread the flame to all burners. Lastly a safety sensor will be looking for a certain temperature within a few seconds and the furnace will continue to operate and the room air blower will turn on in a minute or two.

What could go wrong? The unit will not run if there is no signal from the thermostat (bad thermostat or broken wire), the control module does not sense a signal from the thermostat (bad control), the inducer does not energize (bad motor), the pressure switch does not close (blocked vent piping, bad switch, plugged condensate hose), the igniter does not energize (bad control, bad igniter), the gas valve does not open or there is no gas (bad gas valve, broken wire, no gas), the pilot does not light (dirty pilot), the burner does not light (bad burner, plugged orifice, not enough combustion air), the flame does not spread to each burner (bad flame spreader, dirty flame spreader, more bad burners), the flame safety sensor does not detect flame (dirty or bad flame spreader, bad flame sensor, broken wire, bad control), or the room air blower does not energize (bad fan motor, bad control).

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1 Answer

Will not heat up a room no matter how high i turn the temperature. I ve tried different modes overrides etc... nothing makes the heat just turn on.


If you are referring to the thermostat, try jumping the R and W wires together. If it starts, replace the thermostat. If not, go to the furnace and jump the R and W terminals on the circuit board. You may need to tape the door safety switch closed. If it starts, you have a bad thermostat wire. If not, check out the sequence of operation as below.

On a call for heat, the 24 volt thermostat sends a signal to the control module. The control module will indicate a call for heat with a light on the control either blinking or remain solid depending upon model. The inducer (exhaust) blower will purge all gasses from the furnace and pressurize a pressure switch. Once the pressure switch tells the module to continue, the electronic ignition will energize and send 120 volts to the igniter. The igniter will glow and you will be able to see it if viewed thru the small inspection port. Once the igniter gets hot enough, it sends a signal to the module opening up the gas valve (24 volts). Either a pilot will come on or the burner tube will ignite then spread the flame to all burners. Lastly a safety sensor will be looking for a certain temperature within a few seconds and the furnace will continue to operate and the room air blower will turn on in a minute or two.

What could go wrong? The unit will not run if there is no signal from the thermostat (bad thermostat or broken wire), the control module does not sense a signal from the thermostat (bad control), the inducer does not energize (bad motor), the pressure switch does not close (blocked vent piping, bad switch, plugged condensate hose), the igniter does not energize (bad control, bad igniter), the gas valve does not open or there is no gas (bad gas valve, broken wire, no gas), the pilot does not light (dirty pilot), the burner does not light (bad burner, plugged orifice, not enough combustion air), the flame does not spread to each burner (bad flame spreader, dirty flame spreader, more bad burners), the flame safety sensor does not detect flame (dirty or bad flame spreader, bad flame sensor, broken wire, bad control), or the room air blower does not energize (bad fan motor, bad control).

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1 Answer

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2 Answers

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On a call for heat, the 24 volt thermostat sends a signal to the control module. The control module will indicate a call for heat with a light on the control either blinking or remain solid depending upon model. The inducer (exhaust) blower will purge all gasses from the furnace and pressurize a pressure switch. Once the pressure switch tells the module to continue, the electronic ignition will energize and send 120 volts to the igniter. The igniter will glow and you will be able to see it if viewed thru the small inspection port. Once the igniter gets hot enough, it sends a signal to the module opening up the gas valve (24 volts). Either a pilot will come on or the burner tube will ignite then spread the flame to all burners. Lastly a safety sensor will be looking for a certain temperature within a few seconds and the furnace will continue to operate and the room air blower will turn on in a minute or two.

What could go wrong? The unit will not run if there is no signal from the thermostat (bad thermostat or broken wire), the control module does not sense a signal from the thermostat (bad control), the inducer does not energize (bad motor), the pressure switch does not close (blocked vent piping, bad switch, plugged condensate hose), the igniter does not energize (bad control, bad igniter), the gas valve does not open or there is no gas (bad gas valve, broken wire, no gas), the pilot does not light (dirty pilot), the burner does not light (bad burner, plugged orifice, not enough combustion air), the flame does not spread to each burner (bad flame spreader, dirty flame spreader, more bad burners), the flame safety sensor does not detect flame (dirty or bad flame spreader, bad flame sensor, broken wire, bad control), or the room air blower does not energize (bad fan motor, bad control).

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My gas dryer, LDG512, only burns gas for 8 secs, then shuts off for 90 secs then heats for 8 secs. Continuouscycle. I replaced High Temp thermostatic, checked vents - no obstruction. Taking +1 hr to dry...


Hi

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Please do rate the solution and revert for further assistance.


Thanks
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1 Answer

Furnace runs OK, but blower runs again a few seconds later


Could be a defective thermostat in the plenum.
When a gas furnace shuts down the fan(blower) will run until the plenum cools to the safe range. Usually 1 and 1/2 minutes.
Intermittent operation is a defective thermostat or relay.

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3 Answers

Furnace with cold air only


Sequence of operation, Gas Furnace.

On a call for heat, the 24 volt thermostat sends a signal to the control module. The control module will indicate a call for heat with a light on the control either blinking or remain solid depending upon model. The inducer (exhaust) blower will purge all gasses from the furnace and pressurize a pressure switch. Once the pressure switch tells the module to continue, the electronic ignition will energize and send 120 volts to the ignitor. The ignitor will glow and you will be able to see it if viewed thru the small inspection port. Once the ignitor gets hot enough, it sends a signal to the module opening up the gas valve (24 volts). Either a pilot will come on or the burner tube will ignite then spread the flame to all burners. Lastly a safety sensor will be looking for a certain temperature within a few seconds and the furnace will continue to operate and the room air blower will turn on in a minute or two.

What could go wrong? The unit will not run if there is no signal from the thermostat (bad thermostat or broken wire), the control module does not sense a signal from the thermostat (bad control), the inducer does not energize (bad motor), the pressure switch does not close (blocked vent piping, bad switch, plugged condensate hose), the ignitor does not energize (bad control, bad ignitor), the gas valve does not open or there is no gas (bad gas valve, broken wire, no gas), the pilot does not lite (dirty pilot), the burner does not lite (bad burner, plugged orifice, not enough combustion air), the flame does not spread to each burner (bad flame spreader, dirty flame spreader, more bad burners), the flame safety sensor does not detect flame (dirty or bad flame spreader, bad flame sensor, broken wire, bad control), or the room air blower does not energize (bad fan motor, bad control).

Most newer furnaces will have a diagnostic center or control built into the control module. You may be able to view it as it is running thru a small viewing port. Some models will require the removal of an access panel prior to finding it. On the reverse of the access panel, there will be a diagnostic chart that will aide you in understanding any error code recorded (usually a blinking light).

This is why we technicians earn the big bucks!

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1 Answer

I have a problem with my heating system. It is about 10 years old and has had the ignitor, combustion blower motor, and programable thermostat replace in it's lifetime. The system worked great last year....


sounds like its not proofing flame. it has a sensor usually like a needle sticks out into the flame that tells the gas valve the flame lit and is burning so its ok to keep sending gas, if its fails to proof flame then burner shuts down, then it tries to relight 3 times then locks out on fail safe. the blower will sometimes run continually once that occurs to highlight a failed condition. every time you reset it will try again 3 times then shut down. lp gas is very dangerous, even i do not work on it as the gas acts like gasoline and lays around. not like natural gas that disperses well. if you see the flame sensor try gently cleaning it with a little emory cloth. also a loose ground can cause this. check tio be sure any green wires are snug , they actually flow volts to ground through the flame on some to proof, thats why no ground no flame. if that fails then the board is most likely problem. change wire for wire , or get generic replacemant and follow directions exactly. good luck.some ignitors act as a flamre proofer as soon as they are done igniting! rarely do they fail to perform both funtions.

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