Sony KP-51WS500 Problems

I have the 51" Flicker problem came on after a few weeks. Never called Sony.
Called the place I bought It from, They In turn had me call the local sony
repair guy.
Guy comes out and looks. I showed him a print out of the info about the
flickering. he called a week and a half later and said he had all 3 tubes to
replace and the cap kit.

Hello,
    I just put this TV on lay away, could someone update me on this problem, I
must have missed the earlier post. I thought I was getting a steal at $1700 but
maybe I'm not.
Thanks for any help,
Brad Darnell

Top posting in a convoluted thread makes it very hard to see what the
response is regarding. Intermixed responses, where the response
immediately follows its subject, are much easier to follow. As a rule,
top posters seldom trim the post to which they are responding. If
everyone did this, every post would contain all of the previous posts on
a sub-thread.

Because they seldom trim the post to which they are responding, top
posters typically defend their style by saying that they don't want to
scroll through all of the previous posts to read the reply.

Matthew

--
<http://member.newsguy.com/~mlm artin/>

Thermodynamics For Dummies: You can't win.
                             You can't break even.
                             You can't get out of the game.

Yes, you used all of the excuses I outlined, without trimming. Very top
poster like. You did not engage any of the content of my post. You
simply used it as a place to hang your opinion.

Matthew

--
<http://member.newsguy.com/~mlm artin/>

Thermodynamics For Dummies: You can't win.
                             You can't break even.
                             You can't get out of the game.

Top posting has replaced bottom posting simply because most people (1) do it
this way, (2) hate to scroll through a lot of BS just to get to an answer,
and (3) all one has to do is read the topic before one opens the reply/post
to know what is being discussed and (4) most newsrreaders thread the posts
by subject and then date, thereby allowing the reader to know what he is
looking at.
      Bottom posting is so "20th century" and has been replaced by common
usage of top posting, as the way words are replaced in the dictionary. One
seldom uses the words "thine", "where so art thou", "thee" etc. We have
progressed and eliminated a practice started when the Internet was new.

"Matthew L. Martin" <mlmar @me.com> wrote in message

On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:45:53 GMT, "Michael" <mikeku @attbi.com>
wrote:

Neither of you top-posters know how to trim a post, apparently.

I've never asked this before but.....

Why is it so important to some people where you post replies?
Is it some sort of newsreader thing, adherence to convention
or just the inability to adjust to
differing styles?
No offense, just curious.

1st off, do not talk down to people it just shows YOUR inmaturity. Let's get
a few things straight. I did not say that I went through hell. Actually my
dealer is the one who suggested replacing my set immediately. Even after
owning it for 4 months before the flickering begain. My dealer also replaced
it the 2nd and 3rd time. I only mention that MANY people did have to go
through hell.

Next, I never said that SONY wasn't willing to work with us. Actually they
were cooperative on a one on one relationship. I just mentioned that they
were not very eager to admit a problem right off the bat. No company in
their right mind would. It could destroy sales. Once Sony accepted the fact
(Around the 1st of the Year), that the flickering was NOT isolated cases
and/or confined to a small percentage of customers that complain about
everything anyway, they became much more cooperative. Sony was just taking
care of business and instructing their service reps to maintain damage
control. This is smart business.

Concerning the 1000 hours. I never said that ANYONE suggested waiting that
long. I simply stated that Sony recognized that the impregnated CRT's would
eventually fix themself over time. Also assuming the resistors were still
OK. This is true... Sony knew that the resistors would NOT fix the problem.
Mainly because the resistors WEREN'T the problem. The CRT's were. As far as
failing. As the current leaked and voltages fluctuated, the resistor's
tolerances were no longer in spec. By replacing the resistors they could
manipulate the voltage to temporarily regain a steady picture. I do not
believe that any sets were PERMENANTLY repaired solely on the resistor
exchange. But then most sets would have to go another few months to tell for
sure.

As far as where I get this information, it came from Sony techs. Not some
podunk technician or the forums. I spoke with them on the phone. I do
however suggest that if you want the respect of opinion and sharing of
information, that you NOT be so quick to flame people and their thoughts. No
one asked you to comment. You can always go sit in the corner and color.

I personally don't know your background, but I know that I've probably
forgotten more about electronics in the last 40 years then most people will
ever learn. I don't think you have any idea what heresay is. I personally
called Sony 3 times in 1 day to get an answer on a subject. All 3 times I
got a different answer. That's not to mention the hundreds of different
opinions the techs have out there. I can't believe how many "Dildos" are
supposedly "Sony Certified". I spoke with one tech that our local Circuit
City recommends to compare some notes. This same "Sony Certified" tech also
was the only certified tech in town for every other brand of television out
there. He was pretty good, but even he admitted to not knowing crap about
this flic

There were problems with a range of ser numbers. Maybe you bought one that
was out of the range of the problem units. Sony is not recalling them. There
waitng to fix the ones that people call in about.

I would still buy It.
If something goes wrong Its covered.

I would buy a extended warr.
The problem in short Is the picture flickers, and sometimes turns green.
Sony knows about It. If you have the problem Sony will cover It.

 I've been using the KP-51WS500 for a month now,hopefully Sony has already
recalled the defective stock.I've have not had any problems whatsoever with
mine yet.
 Jerry

My TV had this problem after about 5 weeks.  I wrote to the president of
Sony Canada and they replaced it Christmas Eve.  The red CRT was screwy on
mine.  This one looks great, so far.

cheers

Yes, a lot of calibration.  My tech spent almost 8 hours.  But he got it
right.  Others, I gather, haven't

Michael,

Where do you get this information?  The resistors do not fail.  The
resistors are changed for a new value.  The first thing we did on the sets
that we serviced was to check the values of the resistors because this was
an obvious question for those of us who want to understand what is
happening.  It may be that the resistor change is just a patch on the
problem, I am not sure.  Again, tell where you get this information so we
can check it out.

From the very beginning Sony was saying to change the CRTs if there was any
indication that the resistors did not solve the problem.  At no time did
anyone suggest waiting 1000 hours.

You would not have to "go through hell" if you were dealing with a
responsible dealer who services what he sells and takes on the
responsibility of solving such problems for customers.  I have actually
found Sony to be very willing to help solve problems such as this.

Oops, I forgot.  I am once again expecting to get real information and
rational discussion rather than heresay and bluster on a usenet group...my
mistake.

Leonard Caillouet

Leonard,

We have made the resistor change on several sets. In every case it has fixed
the problem.
Some dating back 3 months.

On your next SAYS fax
you'll see the bulletin that references this very recent change in
procedure. It says don't
go out without the 3 tubes and change them even if you see nothing wrong.
Call it a
commitment to excellence or something like that. On our last call for this
problem, we changed
the resistors and the customer had a "brownout" so we could not proceed. We
left the tubes
there with the promise to return and install them. The customer is in no
hurry because the problem
seems to gone. Don't forget the tubes cost Sony very little, only the
installation is costly and that
is a fixed rate for the resistor change or CRT change. Why not change the
tubes? The installer
is the one who pays for the additional time.

The reason Sony Techs have been replacing the CRT's is because they found
that the resistors were indeed causing the flickering and Hue changes, but
it was the CRT's that was causing the resitors to fail. Of course Sony needs
to be very careful what is published because of bad publicity. But in my
part of the world they couldn't get a local Sony authorized tech to look at
the set in a fast enough time. This was around the end of September. When
the sets were really starting to be a problem and not just an isolated
incident. Sony dispatched their OWN techs out to see what was happening.
This I have 1st hand knowledge of.

Replacing the resitors will USUALLY repair the problem, BUT only for about
another few months. Then it will start again. That was a normal temp fix to
verify before spending the money on the CRT's. Actually SONY figured out
that the problem WILL CORRECT ITSELF, but will require approximately 1000
more hours of operation. The CRT's eventually stabalize. Thus stabilizing
voltages and current. The resistors too, IF NOT TOO BADLY AFFECTED WITH
VALUE CHANGES, would also handle the voltage properly.

Obviously waiting 1000 hours was NOT very acceptable to MOST customers.
Hence the warranty extension. I personally went through "3" Sony sets. I
really loved the set but I decided to switch out the Sony for the Hitachi. I
did this BEFORE SONY got so pro-active with their repairs. Sorry some are
having problems here with their sets, but if it's any consolation, this
problem has been going on for almost 6 months and there are a lot of FLICKER
PIONEERS who have had to go through hell and back again to get Sony
assisting the way they are now. You all should be in a lot better shape.
Good luck all... Mike...

I had one that flickered and many times the picture turned blue.  It was
really bad.  I traded it in for the Pioneer Pro.

Barney

I am very familiar with the service bulletin.  It says to replace the
resistors and IF the problem persists to replace the tubes.  The experience
that I have had is that the resistors have fixed the problem on each of the
sets that I have done.  If there is more to the problem I'd like to know to
be sure that we are servicing our customers most effectively, but I have
quizzed Sony at several levels on the problem and they do not indicate that
the tubes are the source of the problem.

Most of the posts in the HomeTheaterSpot.com forum are hysterical consumers,
not people with any real contacts with Sony, nor with repair experience.
There have been a few Sony sets that have had bad focus/screen blocks that
can cause white balance instability and there are the sets with the leakage
current problem that the resistor mod fixes, and this problem may well
extend beyond the sets in the models and serial numbers in the service
bulletins.  I have seen no information that indicates that one should assume
that a lot of CRTs are failing.  Did your tech try replacing the resistors
before replacing the CRTs?

You have to keep in mind that most people posting in newsgroups and forums
are not speaking from much more than personal experience with their own set,
maybe some second hand info from a tech (who may not have done his homework)
on probably basing their information on other posts with similar resources.

It would be a shame to have a tech replace all three tubes in a set if it
were not necessary.  I'd be surprised if more than a small percentage of
techs will actually get a set realigned properly after such service, which
requires quite a lot of calibration.

Leonard Caillouet

Thanks,

I'll look into it further.  It is good to know that they are extending
warranties on affected sets.

Leonard Caillouet

copied from HomeTheaterSpot, a post by Paul Carleton (who does have contacts
at Sony).  Incidentally, when I reported my problem, the Sony authorized
tech said right away that he'd be replacing resistors and CRTs.  3 things
about Sony's notice:   Their estimate of 1% is probably way low (considering
all the problem sets in my local rural area); it takes less than 1000 hours
for the problem to manifest itself; the serial number ranges are inaccurate.

Here is Sony's announcement.

  In reply to:
------------------------------­------------------------------­----------------
--

  Sony received reports of flickering on select rear projection TV models
and immediately started an investigation. Sony's engineering team found that
in a small percentage of sets (less than 1%) made with impregnated cathode
CRTs, the material used to impregnate the cathode may attach itself to
another section of the electron gun and cause a mild brightness fluctuation
or change in hue.

  Once this problem was diagnosed, Sony published a Service Fix for this
issue and authorized Sony Service Centers and Authorized Service Centers to
make modifications and replace all 3 CRTs in affected units at no cost to
the consumer in order to resolve the issue. In addition, a change to the
manufacturing line was made to ensure that current units do not
experiencethis problem.

  If a consumer is experiencing this symptom, contact Sony Call Center
(800-222-SONY) to schedule a service call. Sony has extended the warranty on
these models for this issue and is working with authorized service centers,
providing all current information for the repair as well as assisting them
in ordering the parts beforehand, so the repair can be
  completed in one call.

------------------------------­------------------------------­----------------
--

  In reply to:

------------------------------­------------------------------­----------------
--

  January 27, 2003

  Dear Retailer:

  Thank you for your continued support of Sony Projection Televisions. We
value your patronage and always consider how Sony can better assist you.
While our products represent the best Sony has to offer in television, we
continuously look at how we can improve the level of quality you and your
customers expect from these products.

  Sony has received reports of a "flickering" condition on certain rear
projection TV models specified below. Our engineering team investigated and
determined that in a small percentage of sets (we estimate that less than 1%
are affected) made with impregnated cathode CRTs, the material used to
impregnate the cathode may attach itself to another section of the electron
gun and cause a mild brightness fluctuation or change in hue. This symptom
does not surface until approximately 1,000 hours of use.

  Once this problem was diagnosed, Sony publish

Where did you get the info on bad CRTs?  Sony tells me that the note about
replacing the CRTs in the service bulletin for the flickering is a last
resort if the tubes are damaged by the leakage current problem that the
resistor mod fixes.  I have yet to see one that needed the tubes replaced
and the techs that I have spoken to at Sony tell me they have seen very few
as well.

Who is your contact at Sony for info on bad tubes?

Leonard Caillouet

I had my CRT's replaced last month.  The shop had done 2 sets before mine,
and 3 more were waiting for the same procedure.  This is in one rural area.
Sony issued a service bulletin recommending the CRT and resistor replacement
for all sets with the flicker problem.
Check out the Sony section at HomeTheaterSpot.com.  Many posts about it.

You will find an awful lot of information at this link
http://www.hometheaterspot.com /htsthreads/postlist.php?Cat=& Board=UBB35

Sony ran into a bad batch of CRT's last year, and finally figured that out
in early January this year.  They're replacing the CRT's and some resistors
on affected sets.  Sony extended the waranty coverage for this problem, so
KPxxHW40's and other sets that are beyond warranty are also being fixed at
no charge.