Invoices with Quicken 2004 Premier Home & Business

My "posting host" is my ISP's news server, news.covad.net. I post from
work and from home but the news server is the same.

Really? What post is that? Cause all I see quoted is <blank>.

That you'll have to take up with Wayne! :-)

Curious: what's your ISP's news server? Is it just

I could look but I really wouldn't be able to tell ya what's going
wrong. NNTP is not my specialty.

I have no idea. I am doing nothing differently than I always do.

--
(A)bort, (R)etry, (T)ake down entire network?

In article <414f0e9 @news1.prserv.net>,
mrcics2000-news-nom @nomail.yahoo.com says...

Yes, that's very much how I saw it too Mike, however I could see Andrews posts
between each one. <g>

In answer to your question, all of Andrews posts have the dreaded HTML version
text plus the regular text version actually used on Usenet.  What a waste.  
However his last post which you saw and responed had that turned that off, and
only has the regular text version regularly used on Usenet.  Then his final
post in response to you (says "no idea") used the dreaded HTML version again.

Sounds as if your ISPs newserver is discarding messages using that HTML junk.  
Wish mine would too.

That funny because I was gonna say the same thing about you!

Hmmm... I was going to say something similar (it matters not to me that
you do - I don't). Hmmm... You seem as argumentative as you accuse me of
being...

The invoice in the designer screen looks essentially the same as the
copy of the HTML invoice that I cc to myself. The only real difference
again is the placement of the Due date box and the fact that the extra
blank detail lines are not there. I don't have a problem with this - you do.

Close enough for me. Sorry you have a problem with it.

Considering I don't use a logo image why would I choose to see that
difference (in my invoices that is)?!?

Mine are similarly shaded.

Described that already - the extra blank detail lines are missing. I see
this as a benefit (less waste of space).

Again, I see no double lines whatsoever in either version (designer vs
HTML invoice).

Just the Due date box being placed in a different position. Again BFD!

Perhaps you should try some sort of pattern recognition class! ;-)

For all intents and purposes they *are* identical enough for me. Why is
that difficult for you to comprehend?

Again, my headers are shaded.

Maybe they fixed the headers in Q2005? I don't know - I don't have Q2004.

Oh it looks *like* the invoice for sure. It does not look enough like
the invoice for your tastes. Fine.

That's because you think in terms of printed pages. Exactly how long
does it need to be? Answer: depends on the size of the paper! But there
is no paper in the context of a emailed HTML invoice!

Not really difficult to do in HTML at all. How much HTML have you done?
A few <p> tags or <br>'s would extend the table and give you those blank
lines you desire. Again it does get back to the issue of how big of a
piece of paper are you talking about, but it's not at all difficult to
do in HTML.

Again I don't see any double lines. Maybe that's a Q2004 thing.

Appearances, appearances. Seems to be a hang up for you. Again, function
over form...

Not only that but then you have more manual steps to do to create the
PDF, fire up your email program, create a message, address it, attach
the PDF, then clean up the PDF file (unless you decide to save it in
which case you need to file it properly).

Results if results means appearances. The end result, the part that
really counts, is that you get paid. And I get paid too. I fail to see
how this results in anything other than payment and both methods work
equally well in this regard.

Yes it represents results to you.

If what's mainly important to you is how things look I suppose.

--
One reason most people play golf is to wear clothes they wouldn't be
caught dead in otherwise.

Don't assume. I out and out admitted it! Weren't you paying attention!
Apparently not.

--
Why do people say "did you see that" when watching a movie at the
theater? No, I paid $12 to come to the cinema and stare at the floor!

So I think you are saying that Q2005 appears to fix a couple of the problems
in the Q2004 HTML invoice version.  That's good, I wasnt aware of that.  I
assume you dont know about the logo image file in Q2005, but it's omission is
a major deficiency in the Q2004 HTML invoice.  However using PDF invoices is
a great solution for emailed invoices, the optimum situation for printed
documents anyway.

In article <6f14c$414df82a$43661972$19 @msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
And @DeFaria.com says...

This is all a simple concept for me, but you seem more argumentative.

"The invoice" to me is that invoice that I designed and displayed at the
Customize option which designs invoices, the invoice that I specifically
designed to be used, as judged by its appearance there in that Customize
designer. It shows the options I have selected, all of them, for one example,
the logo image that I added.  

Or it is the invoice that prints on paper when invoices are printed.
I routinely print invoices (it matters not to me if you dont - I do).  
This is "the invoice".  

Or it is the invoice that appears when printed to PDF for email (same thing).

There is no conflict in these three definitions above, all three are the same,
and look the same, the last two being identical at any level, at the pixel
level so to speak. The first one is as close the same as the video screen can
show it, no significant difference.  Pick any one.  What's hard about that?  
They are all the same. That is "the invoice", by my definition.  If you dont
choose to use those configured options, nor have these needs, that is not my
problem, nor does it affect my problem.

The opened invoice worksheet for any one invoice in work is different, with
additional working features. The customer doesnt see it, so this appearance
doesnt matter.

There is also the option to email invoices in HTML format.  This invoice is
the odd guy, it has a very different appearance, whether on screen or printed,
than the three choices above I call "the invoice".  I want the HTML version to
match "the invoice", but it doesnt, not even close.

Then there is more that you could choose to see.  In the HTML invoice version,
I see the logo image is missing, the shaded headers are missing, and the
less-than-full-page formating, the doubled border lines everywhere instead of
single, and other insignficant positioning differences.  A very different
looking document all told.  Hardly recognizable as the same document, esp
without the logo.  So I find major fault with your "exact copy" description.
<g>  I dont know why this is difficult for you. I do understand your needs are
simple, but that doesnt make these forms identical.  

Yes, Quicken could have implemented support for the logo image and the shaded
headers in the HTML version, they could have, they should have, but they didnt
(at least not in Q2004). Why, I dont know, but the result is therefore it
simply doesnt look like the invoice.  Also the shortened form height instead
of the full page version is a big visual change (difficult in HTML, but this
is unimportant to me anyway, the least detail).  The doubled border lines in
the HTML version is less important too, except that it does give the HTML
version a very different appearance for no

Andrew, are you using different posting hosts? On my newsgroup, this is the
first post of yours I can see in this whole discussion between you and Wayne
Fulton. All the rest of this thread looks like Wayne was having a
conversation with himself (except that I could see different quotes from you
in each of his posts). I suspect it is a problem with my newsserver, I have
been able to demonstrate it to my ISP showing them similar threads with
losts posts by you, compared to Google's thread. As I can't see your posts,
I can't investigate very well, perhaps you wouldn't mind having a quick look
to see if you spot something different between this post and the previous 5?

I can see earlier responses of your to Danny Kile in this thread, it is
just(?) the 5 (or 6?) to Wayne that is missing

Thanks
--
Mike B

When you bring up the form there is a *Layout* drop down. Under that
there is a /Customize/ option. Select that and you'll be put into a
*Forms Designer*. It is there that you can alter the "look and feel" of
the invoice including adding a logo. As I said, I have not played with
it much because the appearance of the invoice was acceptable to me.
Looking at it a little more it appears that there are indeed limitations
(IOW the full power of HTML is not exposed).

Indeed, that is why I included the word "if".

As I said, there is some formatting, though limited by Intuit. I did not
look into the exact format of the HTML. They could include embedded CSS
but they don't.

I'm confused. You added a logo image to your invoice that the HTML
version does not know about it? What does that mean? You mean the HTML
invoice does not include your logo? Perhaps you're doing something wrong..

Hmmm... my invoice doesn't have double lines...

Whatever. I am not as concerned with that.

As I'm sure a real printed invoice on hard bound paper in 4 part color
glossy would even look better.

My statement was nothing of the sort sir. My statement was:

    The HTML document *is* my invoice ergo it *is* an "exact copy" of my
    invoice.

There is nothing incorrect about that statement WRT my invoice.

First off I used no asterisks - get your fact straight. Secondly, you
have no evidence to suggest my intentions of including quotes as being
cute so stop assuming you know anything other than what I have actually
typed. Thirdly, I did put quotes around it because you put quotes around
it in your statement. Forthly, you're right in that it's not exactly an
exact copy because the media is different. The HTML invoice is a file.
The printed version is a version of it in a different form. HTML renders
to a printed (or viewed by a browser) version. Thus exact copy is not
exactly an exact, rather it's a rendering.

Sorry you feel the need to resort to name calling. But to respond in
kind, I guess you were not able to understand the meaning (yet you saw
fit to ascribe a meaning to it nonetheless)! :-)

Of course it does - in my case - because my invoice *is* the HTML
version. This is a very basic identity property for me. Are you really
having difficulty understanding this concept?!?

The other programs that can do much of it too in my mind are simply what
I have already (Quicken) and the file format HTML. Works fine for me -
and others too I suspect.

More of them are HTML manuals and I find them much more friendly.

Anything, implemented poorly (included PDF style manuals), is by
definition inferior!

Huh? Ever hear of the print button?!? Also many offer printed versions.
Finally I don't have the need to kill trees to print things.

Are you saying that you cannot print from Quicken to a PDF printer? (I
don't know because I did

In article <3bef4$414dbd7b$43661972$16 @msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
And @DeFaria.com says...

?  Yes, certainly, of course the Customize menu designs and edits invoices,
adds logos to invoices, etc.  I use a few of them for different situations,
sales tax or not for example. I understand this very well, no problem.  The
problem is that the HTML version cant do all of that regarding appearance, at
least it does not include the logo image or the shaded headers, which are
options in Customize.  The problem is not in specifying this, the problem is
the HTML doesnt do it.  I understood you to say you had a way to solve that
HTML problem, but I guess not.  Yes, all things are possible, and the HTML
might have been designed differently, but it wasnt.

What a strange and inappropriate response Andrew.  What could be confusing
about this?  I've made it an issue that the HTML invoice does not include the
logo added to the invoice.  Images are additional files for HTML, a problem I
suppose.  There are other issues too regarding exact appearance.   No, I am
not doing anything wrong, the HTLM invoice simply doesnt look at all like my
invoice, in several different ways, quite far from "an exact copy" of the
invoice.  My opinion is the loss of the logo is the one worst problem.  Where
have you been?  Wake up, this was the subject of discussion.

Is the HTML limitation understandable?  Sure, but still a limitation.  Is the
HTML suitable anyway?  Sure, probably, at least some would think so, for email
purposes perhaps, however its still a far cry from looking like my Quicken
invoice. Its text is correct, but its appearance is hardly recognizable to me,
because I'm used to the real invoice.  Not an exact copy.  PDF however is all
of these things.

You're a little slow to tune in today Andrew.  No of course not, the opposite.
I am saying PDF from Quicken is a solution to the HTML problem.  I am saying
that when you do print the Quicken invoice to PDF, then you do get a PDF that
is an exact copy of the invoice, an exact copy, indistinguishable from the
original invoice, looks identical in every little detail, and is also very
suitable for email.  The HTML invoice which you claim is an exact copy does
have correct text, and basic field arrangement, but not much more. It is
otherwise nowhere near that same appearance of the original invoice, so the
HTML certainly cannot be said to be an exact copy of the invoice.  Far from
it, in my book anyway.

Be that as it is, the only point being that PDF (if available, and it is to
many) is a far better solution for emailed invoices which do look exactly like
the original invoice, if that is important.  It definitely is important to me.
HTML simply does not satisfy this invoice appearance requirement.  

However PDF is a bit awkward in Quicken because Quickens printer selection is
off in a distant Setup d

What specifically? (and bear in mind that we are arguing appearance,
form over function, which I find is quite trivial in the first place).

Hmmm... You're right! This appears to be another Intuit bug. Forgive me
for assuming that it would work.

HTML doesn't do what? HTML does do it - Intuit didn't do it!

Didn't know it was a problem until now. Silly me, I assumed if the forms
designer allowed you to include a logo then that would mean that the
logo would come out on the invoice! What a stupid assumption on my part!
:-)

Appears to me to simply be a bug.

No it's not. A strange and inappropriate statement would be to say that
HTML - a thing - would *know* about anything as it cannot think - but I
digress...

Your explanation of the problem?

But you didn't state it that way. You said:

    ... It uses only simple HTML, probably works with any browser. But
    it doesnt have my invoice's logo image...

Which implies to me that you didn't add the logo. Later you state:

    Regardless, I have added a logo image to my invoice, and the HTML
    version does not know about it, it is omitted.

Which implies that you added the logo image to some place but not the
HTML version because you refer to it as if it's something different (IOW
you didn't say something like "I added a logo image to my HTML invoice"
rather you said "and the HTML version", which, to me, implies you did
something to A and it was not reflected in B.

I can include images in HTML email and they show up. The image file
itself is included in the email message and the HTML refers to the
included image file. Apparently Intuit chose not to take it that far.

Hmmm... I thought the subject was "Invoices with Quicken 2004 Premier
Home & Business" not "Why doesn't my included image logo get displayed
at the customers site?".

What limitation is that (specifically)? Do you mean that in order to
place things exactly on the page one must use CSS (which, again, can be
embedded into the HTML but Intuit choose not to do that)? Or do you mean
that HTML refers to image files externally (which, again, can be done in
the context of an email message but again Intuit apparently chose not to
do it). I don't see either as a limitation of HTML rather I find Inuit's
implementation of this limiting...

I'd say yes. You say no.

The only purpose of an invoice is to inform the customer what they are
supposed to pay.

My Quicken invoice and my emailed HTML invoice look the same to me. At
least enough of the same for what I require.

What exactly is your "real invoice" anyway? 'Cause all I have is the
Invoice form inside Quicken itself. Contained therein are obvious
differences such as the top line that has stuff like *Customer*,
*Project/Job*, *Layout*, etc which obviously should *not* be part of the
invoice sent to the customer. Additionally there is a *

In article <82cb2$414c60cd$43661972$28 @msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
And @DeFaria.com says...

Good for you Andrew, I'm thrilled for you, but the HTML version is not much
like my invoice.  I'm speaking of Q2004 H&B if it might matter, but I doubt
it does.  Yes, the HTML has the same text and numbers, and it is perhaps
functional for the same purpose, and it is free.  It uses only simple HTML,
probably works with any browser.   But it doesnt have my invoice's logo
image, it has double line borders instead of single, spaced differently, no
gray shaded headers, and it doesnt have the white full page space.  It has an
entirely different appearance than my invoice.  Frankly, I wouldnt even
recognize it, at least not without some study and knowledge of the situation.

OTOH, PDF is an exact replica of anything that can be printed from any
program.  All those software/hardware manuals for example.   Quicken printer
selection is very awkward, but PDF is extremely useful for anything that can
be printed.  I already have Acrobat for other necessary purposes, but it is
very handy here too, and for example, also for my tax return forms printed to
PDF from tax software for archiving on CDR with the Quicken data reports,
etc. Anything that can be printed can also create exact copies in PDF. That
is extremely useful to me.

In article <c51d4$414ce4d7$43661972$5 @msgid.meganewsservers.com>,
And @DeFaria.com says...

Yeah?  How so?  The only options I see are to email as HTML or as plain text,
and attachment or embedded.

Actually no, the HTML invoice generates quite a few validation errors at
http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/ validator/upload.html
And http://validator.w3.org wont even attempt to validate it.
Not serious, but hardly standard (if meaning according to HTML standards), but
yes, it can still work.

But by simple, I meant it has no CCS styles as is commonly used today for
formatting HTML pages.  Instead it just uses tables, no attempt at all at
formatting, only justified table rows and columns.  Formatting is a major
missing elememnt in the appearance of the HTML version invoice.

Regardless, I have added a logo image to my invoice, and the HTML version does
not know about it, it is omitted.  This is one more of the several ways the
HMTL invoice doesnt look anything like my invoice.

I dont need it either, but the HTML does it. My invoice does not do it.

I have printed it, and the HTML is all in the top third of the printed page,
but my invoice is formatted to cover the full page.  The HTML version simply
looks extremely different than my invoice, in several major ways.  As I said,
I really doubt I would even recognize the HTML as being my invoice.  It does
however say the right words and numbers, but not much else.  
There may be a CBS/Dan Rather joke in there somewhere. <g>

Perhaps, and I do think the HTML invoice version could be functional for an
email copy, but PDF is very noticeably better about looking like the invoice.
PDF in fact does look exactly like it, but the HTML isnt even close.  Your
incorrect statement was that the HTML looks exactly the same as the invoice,
and you even thought it cute to use asterisks and quotes around "exact copy",  
I suppose so that any idiot might understand your meaning, whatever it was.  
The only part I understood was that you were obviously quite wrong, since the
HTML version simply doesnt look anything like the actual invoice.

I certainly didnt mind, I have even updated a couple of times too, and surely
will again some day, so add more dollars.   Acrobat is a great program, a good
buy for what it does, and I like and need what it does. I may not even be the
only one. <g>  And there are other programs now that can do much of it too.

Those are the PDF manuals that I refer to, and on CD too.  However some of
those are HTML manuals now, which I find very much less friendly myself. I
hate those HTML manuals. Implented poorly, AFAIK without exception. Also they
cannot be printed, other than extremely crudely.  They greatly underperform
PDF.  PDF is the same as if the original source documenet wer

I bet you could make it look just about exactly like your invoice.

Correction - if it's *standard* HTML, simple or complex, it works.

One can add a logo. I have not designed one. Don't think I need one.

You might be able to change that. I don't know. I don't *need* double
line borders! I just need an invoice that functions as an invoice so
that I can get paid.

Hmmm.... If I received your invoice and just had to have it on paper I
would open up the HTML file in a browser and print it. Even if it were
but one line I suspect when the page came out of the printer it would be
one full page!

There is not much that an invoice needs to be functional.

Not really. A PDF can be printed from Adobe Reader only. But hey if you
don't mind shelling out a couple of hundred $$$ for additional software
to produce PDFs then go for it. I, OTOH, prefer to limit my expenses.

I prefer software/hardware manuals online and at the manufacturers web
site. That way they are apt to be more up to date and complete and I
always know where to find them.

I don't need it printed. I'd prefer it not printed. Did you see the part
about that I have no printer?

My tax returns, done through Web TurboTax, get delivered to me as PDF
files already. YMMV. I prefer them to remain online instead of printed
but there are those who still insist on printed material.

Suffice to say that you have more printing needs than me. In any event,
WRT Quicken producing invoices, the format of the file (PDF vs. HTML)
does not really matter to me. With PDF I'd have to spend additional
money and go through a number of additional steps to invoice somebody.
Frankly I can do without the additional expense and the double lines -
it doesn't matter to me - as long as I get paid.

I"m not saying that PDF files are useless and it would not be nice to
have the full version of Acrobat to produce them. I have a lot of legal
documents (legal guys tend to like things on paper) that I've scanned
into PDF files (luckily the scanner at work directly scanned to PDF
files). However for the simple task of invoicing HTML works just fine
for me.
--
A lady came up to me on the street, pointed at my suede jacket and said,
"Don't you know a cow was murdered for that jacket?" I said "I didn't
know there were any witnesses. Now I'll have to kill you too."

It never ceases to amaze me how people will bend over backwards, three
times and spend a lot of money to solve problems that are not problems.

The HTML document *is* my invoice ergo it *is* an "exact copy" of my
invoice. Take the HTML and print it and viola you *have *an exact copy
of my invoice in printed form (if you so desire or feel you need to
continue to kill trees just because you gotta have paper in your hands).
I really fail to see how printing an invoice to a PDF file then emailing
that file as an attachment makes it any better. A PDF file is a copy of
a printed document that *only* becomes a printed page when one prints it
again. It is nothing more than a file format that is processed by a
program (a freely available program but one that needs to be downloaded
and installed nonetheless). Similarly (actually *in the exact same
manner*) a HTML file is also a copy of a printed document that also
becomes a printed page when one prints it. It is just a different file
format that is processed by a program (of which there are many varieties
and indeed one that is, by default, already installed on every copy of
Windows!). On the receiving end you are 1) assuming they have email (a
pretty safe bet) and you are assuming they've already got Acrobat Reader
(also a pretty safe bet) for the PDF file. The only difference with
using an HTML file is that you assume they have a web browser which,
guess what, is as safe if not a safer bet! (Oh and we are also assuming
they have a printer! (I do not)).

HTML files are easy to produce. Many programs produce them. Worse case
you can produce your own as it is only plain text with any editor, of
which there are many, even many already installed and included in
Windows. And, in fact, Quicken, the program your doing your invoicing in
(well at least the program and topic at hand in this thread) produces
them at the click of a button!

PDF files requires, as you say, the full version of Acrobat which costs
you more money. Also several steps are involved in producing this PDF
file as well as a number of manual steps to email it whereas the Quicken
"Email an HTML invoice" is automatic, free (with the purchase of Quicken
- which I assume you've already made) and requires really only two
clicks of the mouse - one to say generate the email and one to send the
email. So really, why would anybody want to go through the additional
hassle, spend hundreds of dollars for additional software and go through
a number of manual steps just to send a PDF file instead of a HTML
formated file is way beyond my comprehension!
--
DEFINITION: Computer - A device designed to speed and automate errors.

In article <5QI2d.38347$zT6.16 @bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
kileda @NOSPAMnetscape.net says...

The HTML option in the Invoice email feature works well, but a way to
email an "exact copy" of the printed invoice is by using Adobe Acrobat
(full version), or one of the ScanSoft Office versions of OmniPage or
PaperPort.    Then you can "print" the invoice (or anything from any
program that prints) to a PDF file, selecting PDF as if it were a
printer, and email the PDF file.  Everyone has the free Acrobat reader,
and they can print the page, and it will look exactly like your own
printed version.

The downside is that Quicken is terribly awkward in this regard.  You
cannot select a different printer in the Quicken Print box, but instead
must first go to Quicken Printer Setup - Invoices to change printer to
be PDF, then print, then go back and restore the previous printer.

Not sure. All I put in the description is "Clearcase/Clearquest
Consulting" 'cause that's what I do.

OK, let's play a little bit... Well it's just an HTML attachment sooooo
-  just use HTML tags! I entered:

    Clearcase/Clearquest Consulting<br>

    This should be on it's own line.

    <h1>Heading 1</h1>

    <p>You can even do <b>bolding</b></p>

Temporarly changed the email to email me at home and I received:

    Clearcase/Clearquest Consulting
    This should be on it's own line.

      Heading 1

    You can even do *bolding*

Works like a champ!

--
Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

What else would you like to know? If you ask me specific question I will
give you specific answers.

Just send out an invoice today as a matter of fact. Q2005 H&B. Created
the invoice and hit the Email invoice button and wham up popped a
Thunderbird (my mailer) compose window already addressed. I don't like
the Subject line it puts in ("This is your invoice") so I change it to
"Invoice #", add a CC to me and click send. Quicken attaches the invoice
in basically the same format as I posted. In fact I copied and pasted
it, change the addresses/amounts and greyed them to look pretty.

Q2005 also allows you to "design" and invoice HTML template. I forgot
what I customized, I think I removed a field or two, etc and that's that.
--
5 days a week my body is a temple. The other two, it's an amusement park.

Andrew thanks now that I have found this option with your help, the
question is this. How do you make the HTML format display the carriage
return in the description text. All line run together as one paragraph.

How... Well... Quaint! :-)

--
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

Thank you any ways but I found the option in the 2004 version also.

--
Danny Kile
Certified FCC, ISCET, A+ , Network+

Please reply to the Newsgroup ONLY
Your cooperation is appreciated.

Andrew could you elaborate on this please, Thank you.

What I have done generally is to print it out and then scan it into Word and
send it as an email attachment.

Not a very elegant solution, but it looks a lot better than the email
invoice generated by Quicken.

Not sure about 2004 but 2005 allows you to email an HTML attachment
which looks just fine to me, Here's a sample:

  Invoice

*Your company name
Your address
Your city, Your state Your zip code
*      
DATE    Invoice #
date    invoice #

BILL TO
Bill to company name
Bill to address 1
Bill to address 2
Bill to city,, Bill to state Bill to zip code

DUE DATE
due date

DESCRIPTION     Quantity        RATE    AMOUNT
description     quantity        rate    amount

*Total*         *total amount*

--
Happiness is merely the remission of pain.

Thanks for the reply, I had thought of that also, but it may be more
trouble than it is worth. Right not I print them out and then snail mail
them.