Canopus ADVC-1394 -- anyone using it yet?

On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:58:43 +0200, Ome Joop <omejoop @hotmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Erik and all,

I can't answer your questions but I have also been very interested to
find out more about this card.

I would like to make HQ captures from analogue sources (mostly VHS)
and then perhaps convert to VCD/SVCD, or even DVD later on. I
currently have just an ATI Radeon AIW card, which can capture in
various formats including VCD compliant MPEG1, but I think quality is
compromised for the sake of realtime encoding. I know some may say
that you can't expect much from a VHS source, but I have seen others
achieve much better results than I can produce, and yet others who
suggest various ways for improving the final result by, essentially,
making a HQ capture first (eg using HQ codecs, capturing in higher
frame size and reducing/deinterlacing later) and then
converting/encoding that to VCD/SVCD so that quality is not
compromised as much as it would be under the pressures of realtime
encoding.

While I know my ATI card will allow me to "experiment" with making HQ
captures, my attention was drawn to easier alternatives such as the
Canopus ADVC100 and ADVC50 analogue to digital converters, as these
devices reportedly output HQ DV from analogue sources without being
dependent on the resources available in your PC (the video/audio
capture is done external to the PC) - all you really need is a
firewire card and plenty of hard drive space so that your PC can
transfer the incoming DV onto your hard drive. From what I understand
about DV, there is not a lot of variation in the format to be worried
about, so it sounds ideal if you just want to capture in relatively HQ
(compared with VCD MPEG1) without going into "experimenting". By most
accounts the ADVC's are simple to use; the Canopus DV codec appears
renowned for its quality and it avoids problems with the audio not
being kept syncronised with the video. The only downside that I have
seen mentioned is the time that it can take to convert DV to VCD/SVCD,
but I'm not too worried about that, at least for now. I would be very
interested to hear about the experiences of people who have captured
their analogue video in this manner in order to produce VCD/SVCD,
particularly if it is not as easy as it sounds, or if the results were
not as good as they had hoped. I'm also very interested in hearing of
experiences with converting DV to VCD/SVCD/DVD (quality of results,
software used, tips etc). I don't really want to spend a lot of money
on a high-end solution just to capture HQ analogue video, nor do I
want to upgrade my computer at this time.

So, I was all set to buy one of the ADVC's when suddenly the ADVC1394
appears on the Canopus website. It sounded much like the ADVC50 except
that it had the firewire interface built in and it came with some
software to allow captures in MPEG formats.

I downloaded avi_io (surprisingly small) to give it a try.

1a. Source: I get only 1 choice Ms DV Camera and VCR.
1b. resolution:(under video format) 4 choices 640X480 to 720X576. Pixel
depth and Compression: only choice = dvsd. Size (bytes) 1244160.
1c. colorspace: I could not find any tab to make this seting.
1d.framespeed: under capture setting there are a lot of options, and a box
to type in frames per second. ANY number can be entered here.
1e. recompression: under compressor I have only 1 choice No Recompression.
Compression quality is grayed out.
2 .stereo: sample rate; encoding: able to select any trio from 8000, 8 bit
,mono; to 48000, 16 bit, stereo.

In my inexperience I thought most of these options were provided by the
software accepting the file. e.g. I thought the 1394 card detected the
source.  Since I have the VCR plugged into it that is my only choice. If I
were to plug in a dv camera I would have that as the option. I thought the
software provided the options for colorspace, etc because I have different
option depending on which software I am using (premiere, vv3, avi_io,
virtual dub). I remember seeing some of those options in Virtual Dub for
uncompressed RGB, DIVX, Indeo and many more. I also have  in VD, under
custom video format a wide range of frame size and data format ( 32 bit
ARGB, CYUV, YUV 4:2:2 and a lot more).

You are right I am learning a lot. Thanks for your time in explaining the
settings.

My thoughts are that it may be better to buy an external box like the
ADVC-100

You should still be able to use it in the years ahead then if they change
from PCI slots to some other slot type (I'm sure there will be firewire
cards available for whatever slot type replaces PCI)

Wow, what a story ;)

While researching the pros and cons, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion
that the DV format is *not* good enough as an intermediate format for
several reasons
  - The bitrate is too low; it's even lower than HQ MJPEG.
    Screenshots that I've seen show compression artifacts in
    high-frequency areas (such as text & logos).  It is safe to
    assume these artifacts are also present in other areas where
    they are not so noticable. They *will* affect recompression!
    There is no way to tweak the format: 25mbps is all you get.
  - The colorspace (for PAL) is not good; 4:2:0.

As many modern video-cameras use DV as a native format, there is some
merit in being able to process it though, and that would be where this
Canopus card comes in.

My basic need is an analogue capture card that allows for very clean
signals & uncompressed captures, also in the colorspace domain.  It
has to do better than my current solution: a Matrox G400 Marvel and
an el-cheapo Pinnacle PCTV card which does surprisingly well in
capturing SVHS signals. Both cards allow only a 4:2:2 colorspace in
max. resolution.
I thought this advc-1394 card might provide a step up from my current
setup while also setting me up for the future with its DV capabilities,
but now I'm not so sure.

PS:
My normal modus operandus is to capture full PAL-D1 (768x576) in YUV2
colorspace (4:2:2) using HuffYUV compression.  This means that I get
a 2:1 reduction in colorspace (can't be helped) and after that a 2:1
compression ratio from HuffYUV yielding around 10 MB/sec.

Cheers,
Erik.

I understand your confusion; we've all been there and there is something
more
to learn every day ;)

You were already close answering my question by trying Virtual Dub for
captures,
so I'll use that program as an example (you may want to try avi_io as it
offers
far fewer choices, but will still offer all you need to capture well &
robust).

For "normal" analogue capture cards it is generally possible to make a host
of choices for the input format
 1. video
  a. input source (e.g. composite, s-video, tv-tuner, DV-channel, etc.)
  b. image resolution (e.g. 720x480, 352x240, etc.)
  c. colorspace or encoding format (e.g. RGB, YUV, UYVY, MJPEG, DV,  etc.)
  d. frame speed (e.g. 15fps, 30fps, etc.)
  e. recompression format (DivX, Intel Indeo, HuffYUV, etc.)
 2. audio
  a. mono/stereo
  b. sample rate (e.g. 22500Hz, 44100Hz, etc.)
  c. coding format (16 bit PCM, 8 bit u-law, 4-bit ADPCM, XXXkbps MP3, etc.)

So, my real question is:
Is it possible to select
For video
 1a. (source) composite or SVHS
 1b. (resolution) 720x480 (= max size I presume)
 1c. (colorspace) RGB or RGBA (2nd choice would be YUV2 or UVYV)
 1d. (framespeed) 30 frames/second (possibly 29.97 for NTSC)
 1e. (recompression) uncompressed, or HuffYUV
and audio
 2a. stereo
 2b. (sample rate) 44100 or 48000
 2c. (encoding) 16 bit PCM

Best possible capture would be SVHS @ 720x480x30fps in RGB format
uncompressed,
effecitively letting you capture the full image without *any* loss.

Could you give it another try, I'm really curious whether it is possible.

Thanks,
Erik.

I have been using the Canopus 1394 for a few weeks. I am a real novice at
video editing but I have been able to get it to work very well. Any
"problems" have been a result of my own stupidity. I followed the directions
in the manual and everything worked as promised. I have not had any sync
problems. You may want to get the additional "box" that will let you plug in
your cables into the front of the computer.
I have been using a VHS vcr deck to trasnsfer to the hard drive. The card
comes bundled with Video Vegas 3.0 LE and Winproducer3. VV3 cannot convert
to mepg 1 or 2 in the LE version but it is a very good editor. I am not as
happy with winproducer but it may be my own lack of understanding it. I
remember reading somewhere that Canopus has finalized an agreement with
another company (Ulead ?) so the bundle may be changing.
HTH

I was looking at this card also but don't like VV3, it would be great if I
could get it bundled with Media Studio Pro 6.5, I currently use MSP 6.0 and
much prefer it to Premier or VV3.

Cheers.

--
Pete D
Buz & Pyro Video Editing
www.users.bigpond.com/peterd56

Thanks for your info.  Can you tell me a little about the capturing
process?
Can you only capture in DV format, or is it still possible to use
general codecs (such as huffyuv), or even uncompressed captures?
The specs on the Canopus site are very silent about this.
A good program to try this out would be avi_io.

Thanks again,
Erik.

"> Thanks for your info.  Can you tell me a little about the capturing
I am new to this video editing stuff and I don't really understand your
question.
I can capture the VHS tape  via Premiere or  VV3LE. I can set the capture
format to match another format on the hard drive or a variety of NTSC
formats from 352X240 to 720X480  and multimedia 320X240 15 fps.
I have tried to use Virtual Dub to capture but I need to learn more about
it. There are too many options that I don't understand.
It seems to me that the 1394 is a capture card that converts the signal to
digital format. I would think that you could use any program to accept that
and use it as you wish.
Wish I could be of more help.