replaced air filter, spark plug and sharpened blade. was able to start (though it had vibrations) and was able to mow small area of lawn. shut off mower, moved to another section to mow, and the bolt holding the blade came loose. tightened the bolt down to 60lbs and it still comes loose. so i bought a new blade (after trying to balance the old one) put loctite (blue) on the bolt, tightened it down to 60lbs again and let it sit 24 hours. tried again and the bolt still comes loose. to make matter worse, i took the blade off and tried to start it. while trying to start it the rip cord is yanked (painfully) from my hand. i put the new blade back on and now not only does the bolt come loose again, but the rip cord is still being yanked from my hand.
what do i need to do now? take mower apart?
do i need to take this into to a shop for repairs or is there something i can do to fix this? (my lawn needs to be mowed as i've been battling this for over a week!)
toro is model 20016 (230000001+)
Comments:
Aug 24, 2009
- how would the starter/ratchet mechanism get reversed? i only removed the blade and put it back on after sharpening, and didn't take anything else apart. i can definitely break into the mower (though i don't have much experience in knowing what i'm looking for or doing but am always up for a challenge).Aug 25, 2009
- I took the plastic guard off the top of the mower but was unable to remove the metal shroud over the the engine. I don't have a troubleshooting guide or manual to use, so I will search for one on how to take the top part apart. Any recommendations?Aug 25, 2009
- How would I fix this "jammed the ratchet and somehow got it facing backwards"?
Any removal hints or instuctions for "I think taking off the top will tell whether this is the case"?
"There is a very strong spring in there, so be very methodical": does this mean I need to be concerned about a spring shooting me in the face?
thanks for your assistance so far!Aug 26, 2009
- ok, i will have a chance to look at this tomorrow evening and will let you know what happens/i find out.Aug 27, 2009
- i was able to get the rewind/recoil starter off. it appears to be fine. i think the problem may be a sheared flywheel key. but i can't confirm that without getting the flywheel nut off. trying to loosen the nut caused the blade to turn, so i'm going to need to block off the blade. (i used some wd40 and am letting it sit overnight). if i need to pull the flywheel though to get to the key, i'm going to need to get a flywheel or steering wheel puller (i don't have either).
besides the flywheel key, could there be something else affecting the timing? some other part i may be overlooking?Aug 27, 2009
- i found this site which may prove helpful as well: http://www.freeengineinfo.com/sheared-keyway.htm#more-162Aug 27, 2009
- the cord doesn't appear to be wound backwards. and yes, the engine was running but only for a short period of time (though there was some vibration/clanking occurring - same sound it was making before it loosened the blade bolt). now however, it does not start or run.
i think it's possible the flywheel key was just damaged a bit when it would still run but now it's probably completely sheared off. i suppose it's possible i damaged the flywheel key if i turned the blade backwards at some point when trying to install the blade back onto the blade driver assembly. (i need to check the blade driver assembly now too to ensure it is not warped/bent.)
from all the additional research i've been doing too, it's possible since i was trying to start the mower without the blade, this (and the damaged flywheel key) is the reason the mower wants to rip my arm off.
i do have an air compressor, so will try to get the air tool in the next day or so. (i will hold off on the torch suggestion for now - don't need to light myself up just yet!) then i need to figure out how to get the flywheel off (with a flywheel or steering wheel puller or some other mechanism/tools).Aug 30, 2009
- ok the problem is solved. i was able to remove the flywheel nut using just regular force (after blocking off the blade with a 2x4 to keep it from moving). i tapped the 3 holes on the flywheel first though since they weren't threaded which was pretty easy using 1/4inch 20national tap set. using a harmonic balancer puller from schucks (since it matched the tecumseh bolt pattern on the flywheel), 3 1/4inch thread (20national, 2inch long) bolts with washers (again with the blade blocked from moving), i was able to get the flywheel off (i didn't have to hit the flywheel at all). the flywheel key was definitely sheared! before putting the new flywheel key in, i tightened down the blade to manufacturer's spec of 60lbs (so as to not shear the key again - if i did that last time). i replaced the flywheel key (part 611004 for toro 20016). then i cleaned up the flywheel (just wiped off all the dirt and grease), put it all back together (pulled the ball-brake on the bail handle to get the brake inside the flywheel) and tightened it down to manufacturer's spec of 37.5lbs. primed the gas bulb, gave it one pull and it started up like a champ!
for never having done this type of work before, it went off without a hitch. i might take the harmonic balancer puller back and build my own puller for the future though (dad-n-law is a welder so he might be able to get me the metal). thanks for the help.
Aug 30, 2009
- ok the problem is solved. i was able to remove the flywheel nut using just regular force (after blocking off the blade with a 2x4 to keep it from moving). i tapped the 3 holes on the flywheel first though since they weren't threaded which was pretty easy using 1/4inch 20national tap set. using a harmonic balancer puller from schucks (since it matched the tecumseh bolt pattern on the flywheel), 3 1/4inch thread (20national, 2inch long) bolts with washers (again with the blade blocked from moving), i was able to get the flywheel off (i didn't have to hit the flywheel at all). the flywheel key was definitely sheared! before putting the new flywheel key in, i tightened down the blade to manufacturer's spec of 60lbs (so as to not shear the key again - if i did that last time). i replaced the flywheel key (part 611004 for toro 20016). then i cleaned up the flywheel (just wiped off all the dirt and grease), put it all back together (pulled the ball-brake on the bail handle to get the brake inside the flywheel) and tightened it down to manufacturer's spec of 37.5lbs. primed the gas bulb, gave it one pull and it started up like a champ!
for never having done this type of work before, it went off without a hitch. i might take the harmonic balancer puller back and build my own puller for the future though (dad-n-law is a welder so he might be able to get me the metal). thanks for the help.
Aug 30, 2009
- ok the problem is solved. i was able to remove the flywheel nut using just regular force (after blocking off the blade with a 2x4 to keep it from moving). i tapped the 3 holes on the flywheel first though since they weren't threaded which was pretty easy using 1/4inch 20national tap set. using a harmonic balancer puller from schucks (since it matched the tecumseh bolt pattern on the flywheel), 3 1/4inch thread (20national, 2inch long) bolts with washers (again with the blade blocked from moving), i was able to get the flywheel off (i didn't have to hit the flywheel at all). the flywheel key was definitely sheared! before putting the new flywheel key in, i tightened down the blade to manufacturer's spec of 60lbs (so as to not shear the key again - if i did that last time). i replaced the flywheel key (part 611004 for toro 20016). then i cleaned up the flywheel (just wiped off all the dirt and grease), put it all back together (pulled the ball-brake on the bail handle to get the brake inside the flywheel) and tightened it down to manufacturer's spec of 37.5lbs. primed the gas bulb, gave it one pull and it started up like a champ!
for never having done this type of work before, it went off without a hitch. i might take the harmonic balancer puller back and build my own puller for the future though (dad-n-law is a welder so he might be able to get me the metal). thanks for the help.
Aug 30, 2009
- ok the problem is solved. i was able to remove the flywheel nut using just regular force (after blocking off the blade with a 2x4 to keep it from moving). i tapped the 3 holes on the flywheel first though since they weren't threaded which was pretty easy using 1/4inch 20national tap set. using a harmonic balancer puller from schucks (since it matched the tecumseh bolt pattern on the flywheel), 3 1/4inch thread (20national, 2inch long) bolts with washers (again with the blade blocked from moving), i was able to get the flywheel off (i didn't have to hit the flywheel at all). the flywheel key was definitely sheared! before putting the new flywheel key in, i tightened down the blade to manufacturer's spec of 60lbs (so as to not shear the key again - if i did that last time). i replaced the flywheel key (part 611004 for toro 20016). then i cleaned up the flywheel (just wiped off all the dirt and grease), put it all back together (pulled the ball-brake on the bail handle to get the brake inside the flywheel) and tightened it down to manufacturer's spec of 37.5lbs. primed the gas bulb, gave it one pull and it started up like a champ!
for never having done this type of work before, it went off without a hitch. i might take the harmonic balancer puller back and build my own puller for the future though (dad-n-law is a welder so he might be able to get me the metal). thanks for the help.
Clarification Request
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 27, 2009
"besides the flywheel key, could there be something else affecting the timing? some other part i may be overlooking?" I don't think the timing is off, since the engine was running -- it was running, correct? If timing is off it will either run very roughly or not at all -- the timing doesn't have to be very far off for it not to run at all. Did you notice if the cord is wound backwards. I'm still thinking the engine is running backwards -- that's the only explanation I can see for the blade bolts coming loose -- especially after being torqued to 60 ft-lbs. I looked at the web page you included. The reference to the air ratchet is the best way to get the nut off -- do you have an air compressor? If so, the air tool is only about $20. Good luck , and thanks for keeping me posted!! Charlie P.S. WD-40 doesn't work as well on seized nuts/bolts as something like liquid wrench or PB Blaster -- the latter is supposed to be the best, but I've never noticed much difference between the two. A torch on the nut (not the bolt) almost always works as a last resort. But around a gas tank, it's not a good idea unless all the gas is drained from the carburetor/tank/lines and left to dry for a while -- even then there is still a risk.
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 27, 2009
When you take off the top, look for the pull cord to be wrapped around the starter backwards. I'm pretty sure all these engines turn clockwise looking down on them. This means the cord on this one would be wrapped counterclockwise, if the theory holds. I found this little tidbit in Wikipedia: "Regular petrol two-stroke engines will run backwards with little problem, and this has been used to provide a "reversing" facility in microcars such as the Messerschmitt KR200 that lacked reverse gearing. Where the vehicle has electric starting, the motor will be turned off and re-started backwards by turning the key in the opposite direction"..... Charlie
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 25, 2009
It is possible that the spring could go wild on you. It would not "jump" out/up -- it's a flat piece of spring metal which is wrapped around the inside. Keep gloved hands on it while taking it off until you can be assured it's going to stay in place... Charlie
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 25, 2009
Is it loose and just won't clear the top of the engine to come off? It should have bolts/screws holding it to the block -- but not being there to see it, it's very difficult to give good help on this.... Charlie
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 25, 2009
Upon further pondering, I'm becoming convinced that the engine is running backwards -- the vibration is another clue which supports that. I'm guessing the mower didn't cut very well either, since the dull edge of the blade was being used. Anxious to hear what you find when you remove the top of the mower. Charlie
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 24, 2009
The rope crank mechanism is geared to the flywheel, the flywheel to the crank, the crank to the blade. I'm thinking that the blade/crank was turned back/forth enough during the changing process, to turn the flywheel which jammed the ratchet and somehow got it facing backwards. (I think I have that visualized.) I think taking off the top will tell whether this is the case. There is a very strong spring in there, so be very methodical. Charlie
Posted by scspriggs on Aug 24, 2009
Sounds like the engine is running backwards -- never heard of this, but it would explain: cord being pulled from your hand (painfully), and blades coming off. Sounds like the pull starter/ratchet mechanism got reversed when you were working on the blades and the engine is turned in the opposite direction when you pull the rope. I know it sounds crazy -- I'm beginning to wonder about myself. If this indeed is miraculously the problem, I think taking off the pull starter and sorting that out would solve the problem. Charlie
