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Paradigm AMS-250 Speaker

Are there Disadvantages of in wall Speakers...


By Cornish - usenet poster


I am considering Paradigm AMS 250 in-wall Speakers. Would I be better
off for the same money getting the Mini Monitors and building a
couple of shelves?

I will be using a Denon 70 watt receiver and a Denon cd player or a
rotel 981amp and the940 ax preamp/tuner. Are the in wall speakers
inferior in any of the following:

1- Achieving tight bass
2- Imaging
3- Accuracy

Thanks in advance.
Richie
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posted on Aug 01, 2007
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Luisa_K

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theorhetically, there need be no loss of performance and IF done
right [few are] you can actually get sl;ightly superior performance
in some cases, since the speaker becomes an infinite baffle with NO
reflection whatsoever from back wave bouncing between the speaker and
the wall. this can actually improve bass to some extent.

Additionally the bass becomes half space loaded instead of quarter
space loaded and thus you do not experience the usual 6dB of
diffraction loss normally begins at about 250 Hz/middle C and falls
off. you will only see about 3 db's of bass fall off. There is a
good discussion of this with graphs on True Audio's web site:
#

Full crisp, tight discipline punchy low bass will continue to be a
funtion of getting a good powered sub in the corner to take advantage
of the full steradian loading of the low frequencies. You continue
to need to cross the mains over to a POWERED sub, as befor, . to get
tight punchy bass below about 100 Hz or so.

The above is IF it is all executed perfectly. In practice:
1. if you put crummy drivers with a crummy crossovers in the wall,
you get the same crummy sound you would get if they were in a box.
2. Too, if the wall AND its cavity is not fully braced, damped and
reinforced and ideall decouipled from the driver, it makes a really
terrible box, which will resonate like hell. Thin dry wall makes
lousiest of boxes. The best speakers, Theil, Hales, etc, have heavy
front baffles often 2-3 inches thick!! with side walls of 1 inch
thinkeness or more--all from from MDF, which is heavily braced and
damped. Compare this to 1/2 inch gyspum. The difference is like
brick compared to cardboard.
3. You need to make sure the in-walls are angled with their sweet
spots, and particularly their tweeters for maximum coverage of the
listening area and they should be at ear level for listeners, just as
will box speakers.

The other space related anomolies, side wall, floor and ceiling
bounce remain the same, as do standing waves and room resonances.
You only get a tiny bit of improvement over the boom, bloat,
tubbiness in the bass over in-room speakers, this can be real and
useful if done right.

There is one other savings. If you figure that your main speakers
take up 4 sq ft of space themselves, with another, say 20 ft of space
around them, well, at roughly $100 sq ft, you pay a hidden,
"opportuntity" cost as the economists call these, of roughly $2,500
in lost utility for that space in the room that becomes dedicated to
the speakers.
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Solution #2

posted on Aug 01, 2007
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Horner

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Gary Eickmeier replied:

In-wall AND in-ceiling speaker designs have improved dramatically over
the past 5 years. I doubt that you're going to achieve the imaging
and accuracy of standard floor mounted speakers, but we have to assume
that you have space constraints if you're looking at wall mounting
your speakers. I agree with Gary's suggestion that you consider a
ceiling mount (but you'll need to consider how to hang them, as
finding good mounts that are compatible with your speakers might be
tricky (eg., if they're heavy or won't accomodate drilling on certain
faces of the speaker box).

Alternatively, you might want to look at positioning your wall
speakers very high on the wall and aiming them down, rather than using
them at a convention height. I guess it will be trial and error to
find the best position for the speakers and room in question. I
suggest you look for a home theatre shop for help in finding speaker
wall / ceiling speaker mounts or for locating dealer sources for
decent sounding in-wall or in-ceiling speakers.

Cheers,

Sharon Churchill
Pullman, WA
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Solution #3

posted on Aug 01, 2007
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M0nica L

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Aside from the enclosure question, I think there is a significant
difference in performance between in-wall speakers and free standing
speakers, simply due to the speaker positioning. You lose quite a bit
by pushing the speakers against a wall, and especially inserting them
right into the wall. Pulling them out a few feet from the walls and
putting them on stands is what gives the three-dimensional imaging
audiophiles prize so highly. In-wall speakers make it sound like the
music is coming from two holes in a wall.

You can experiment with this by just taking a couple of mini monitors
and playing them, first free-standing then up against the wall. As a
corollary, this also shows that you will not solve the problem by
putting some small speakers on a bookshelf.

If space is the problem, have you thought of hanging some small
speakers, say from a sub/sat system, from the ceiling? Your ears are
less sensitive to the height difference, and it would give you the
spatial results we are all after.

Gary Eickmeier
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Solution #4

posted on Aug 01, 2007
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M0nica L

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Yes.

If installed properly, and depending upon the composition of the wall
itself, and how large a cavity is behind it, this may be the least of
your problems. It is quite possible to get really boomy bass from in
wall speakers, as they couple with the wall itself, and the cavity.

There will be a space of flat wall separating the speakers - you will
have no flexibility in terms of creating and controlling a
soundstage.

See under #1.

Jester
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