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I need to install a GFI breaker on a Baptistry.

Its feeding from A 90 amp double pole breaker, then it feeds into a 60 amp and 2 20 amp sub feed panel that powers the heater, pump and timer. Where should I install the GFI or GFI's to get the proper protection.

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  • Anonymous Mar 24, 2009

    How do I determine WHICH neutral wire is the one in the circuit I want to protect with a GFCI? There are 20 or 30 white neutral wires in the panel.


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You could install a standard GFCI in line at each component ( heater, pump & timer) or you could install AFCI breakers similar to what are required in many residential codes (provide the same protection at the panel not at the location...

The AFCI breakers will need to match your panel type (siemens, GE or Square-D) and the amperage/configuration.

I would install them at the lowest level (closest to the components) in the system to reduce possibility of fire in the wiring between the components and the afci breaker.

Posted on Jan 04, 2009

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5000 watt inverter schematics circuit

If you have (90) 50w lamps = 4500 watts total. Assuming a 120/240 panel, if you put 1/2 on one "side" of the panel and the other 1/2 on the other "side" of the panel, that would be 2250 watts on each half. The generator should be rated *at least* 125% of the load; 4500w x 1.25 = 5625W. Using a 4500W generator on this load will cause it to overheat and shorten its life as it is running at 100% of capacity all the time..

One half of the panel is 120V to neutral, and the other is 120V to neutral - or 240V between both circuit breaker terminals. Ohms law for DC circuits and purely resistive AC circuits says Volts x Amps = Watts; or Watts / Volts = Amps. So, 2250W / 120V = 18.75A on each pole of a 2 pole circuit breaker that feeds the sub panel. A #12 copper wire is rated for 20 amps; but as per National Electrical Code - must be de-rated to 80% of rating which means it is good up to 16 amps maximum. A #10 copper wire is rated for 30 amps, but it too must be derated to 80%, making it good for 24 amps maximum. So, if you are going to feed a sub panel supplying (90) 50watt lamps, you will need to run a #10/3 copper cable from a two pole 30 amp circuit breaker at the generator to a 120/240 volt "main lug only" sub panel rated for at least 30 amps.

Divide your load evenly across the sub panel - (4) 15 amps circuits via (2) two pole 15 amp circuit breakers on each "side" of the panel if you run (2) 14/3 cables out to the lights - or (4) single pole 15 amp circuit breakers if you run (4) 14/2 cables out to the lights. No circuit breaker terminal should have more than 23 lamps that means you have (2) w/ 22 lamps and (2) with 23 lamps. The circuit w/ 23 lamps will draw 23 lamps x 50w = 1150W. 1150W / 120V = 9.6A. The 22 lamp load will be 22 x 50w = 1100W. 110W / 120V = 9.2A. Which is well within the 12A maximum allowed (after derating as required by code) by a #14 copper wire rated for 15A.

Good luck!

Mar 10, 2014 | Electrical Supplies

1 Answer

Electricity went out in 1 circuit while using my table saw w/washer going. I replaced the breaker & have 240 volts comming out of it but no electricity to receptacles or switches, So I replaced all...

In workshop areas, the NEC specifies GFCI (ground fault circuit interruptor) outlets.
If you replaced any GFCI outlets, there could be 2 possible problems:
(1) modern GFCI outlets will pass zero voltage if wired backwards (i.e. a load/feed reversal).
check the load/feed wiring of all GFCI outlets, to make sure its correct.
The feed side of the GFCI outlet is wired directly to the breaker, and the load side feeds power
to the remainder (the downstream side) of the circuit (therefore protecting the entire downstream
side of the circuit).
(2) older GFCI outlets could need to be reset if wired correctly - check the reset button(s) just to
make sure that they (and any downstream outlets) are receiving voltage.
Assuming that no GFCI outlets were part of the replacement process (or that your GFCI outlets
are correctly wired), your check for the presence of 240 VAC
should begin at the outlet/switch closest to the 240VAC double pole breaker, and proceed from there (looking for that 240VAC at each device with your 2-prong tester) along to the end
of the circuit until the problem is identified.
What this implies is that you have created (or will create) a schematic or circuit diagram of the
circuit involved - including switches, wires, and outlets (240V and 120V) - and then use that as a
resource to trace the possible sources of the problem from the breaker to the problem.
Here's the question I would want you to answer as you create your circuit diagram:
How did a 240V table saw get on the same circuit as a 120V washer and/or 120V switch(es)?
It seems like during the process of circuit tracing/diagram creation, you may find
that you're dealing with parts of more than 1 circuit, rather than just one. Check the breaker box
for any breakers that are in the "Tripped" position - and diagram those circuit(s) too.
What I would suspect is a wiring problem/mistake with the 1st device (switch or outlet) that is
supposed to feed power to the rest of the circuit, but fails to pass power on to the remainder of the circuit - or that that first device is actually wired to a second circuit with a tripped breaker.

Another thing to check is that your shop may be on its own sub-panel, with the table saw
on a 240VAC circuit, and the washer on its own 120VAC circuit. In this case, the
total curent draw may have tripped the MAIN breaker to this sub-panel in the MAIN breaker
panel (i.e. none of the breakers in the sub-panel were tripped, but the main breaker feeding the
ENTIRE sub-panel tripped, and this (double pole) breaker is located in the MAIN breaker panel).
In this case, the fix would be to reset the double pole breaker in the main panel that feeds the
shop sub-panel, bringing all the sub-panel circuits on line.

The last thing to suspect/check for is a fault in the wire itself, which is the most difficult problem to
diagnose. The fix to a bad wire would be re-fishing a new wire from the breaker box to the 1st
device box - no electrical inspector will require the removal of old wires from walls - so long as they
are not live.
What would make your life alot easier, and what helps electricians diagnose these problems so
quickly, is an electrical field tester (a.k.a. "chirper" tester), which would allow you to check
the wire as it leaves the breaker box to the point where the electrical field disappears.
At the point (point in the wire/outlet/switch) where the chirper stops chirping, you've found your
fault. At Home Depot/Lowe's/electrical supply store, a electrical field tester will set you back
about $8 to $20, depending on whether you opt for one that just lights an LED, or one that
lights and LED and also chirps.

Sep 04, 2011 | Electric Drill Scaler

1 Answer

One half of a 240 volt gfi breaker does not supply the 120 volts and the other half does. when I did a continuity test, both sides of the breaker show or indicate good circuits. position of breaker in...

The breaker must engage TWO bus bars in the panel, in addition to the a neutral connection. If the breaker is aligned to engage only one of the bus bars, only one of the terminals will be powered at the breaker terminal screw (most likely the top).

Some electrical panels have covers that have numbers and spaces stamped for circuit breakers at the bottom; when in reality, there is no bus bar to connect. Make sure you are not attempting to install into a space that lacks both bus bars.

If unable to get 240 volts out of the breaker without the load wires connected, there may be an issue internally with it. If after connecting the load wires, one side fails again, it may be detecting a ground fault or an over current situation but due to an internal failure is unable to trip both poles of the breaker. This breaker should be replaced.

May 14, 2011 | Electrical Supplies

2 Answers

I just a GE load center/sub panel on my garage with a 60 amp back-fed main breaker. I purchased a retaining clip (part # THQLRK2CP) and am looking for instructions for how to install this retaining clip...

these breaker holders are not the tight fit one might think,the manufactures only provide these things for code,you prob have it in correctly

Mar 31, 2011 | GE Hammering

1 Answer

Can I install a 20a gfi breaker in a 50a 240 gfi spa sub panel?

No. Don't ever do this. You have to install the correct amperage breaker ( magnetic contact ). This will burn your 20a gfi breaker quickly.

Mar 05, 2011 | Cutler Hammer Gfi Breaker 2 Pole 20 Amp

1 Answer

I need to install a subfeed panel in a basement. The main panel is in the garage on the first floor. Is it necessary to install a disconnect switch in the same location as the subfeed, or will the 2 pole...

The breaker feeding the sub panel is fine there is no reason to have a service disconnect in the line . Just make sure you have the proper size wire for the breaker you are installing .Here is a simple wire size calculator,

Nov 24, 2010 | Heating & Cooling

1 Answer

What is the second smaller lug for on the service lugs next to the nuetral in a 200 amp square d homeliness panel

This is a sub-feed lug, should you ever decide to add a sub-panel in your house. So when landing your feed wires to this panel, use the larger lug. Good Luck, and feel free to ask me anymore question's that you may. - Jim

Apr 02, 2010 | Square D Qo 200 Amp 42 Circuit Indoor...

1 Answer

We have a wet location with a need for a 3 pole 30 amp Siemens BL circuit breaker to feed the peice of equipment and would like to have ground fault protection. Is this Breaker available in GFI?

I see you're looking for a 3 pole 30 amp Siemens BL cir. brkr.? I don't believe they make a this type of breaker in a 3 pole. In a 2 pole yes, but not a 3 pole. Also, I see on top of your message, it says Siemens #MP120GF 20 amp SP GFI Breaker. Now, if this is what you're looking for, I do know they have one. If you're working out of a home, I'm sure you have a 240 volt service, and a 3 pole wouldn't work here anyway. I'm just checking, but do feel free to contact me for this, or any other questions you may have. Good Luck to you, and I hope I was able to help you in some way. - Jim

Mar 31, 2010 | Siemens #MP120GF 20A SP GFI Breaker

1 Answer

How to determine electrical power panel load capacity

The total panel ampacity should be rated first by your load, then by the main breaker. if you are feeding it out of another box, it will probably be a double 100amp. In that case you will probably use 100amp SER cable.

Mar 30, 2009 | Thomas & Betts Electrical Supplies

4 Answers

Properly installed electric baseboard heater won't work.

I am an electrician. You must measure the voltage across the black and red wires. Measuring each wire to the neutral will not cut it. If both your red and black wire are on the same phase the heater will not work.

To double check your wiring, measure the voltage across the two screws feeding your subpanel, they should be 240v or 208v depending on your power company. Then do the same at the breaker feeding your thermostat. Again it should read 240v.

If you have no potential across the screws it is possible that you installed an incorrect breaker. Not all breakers with two screws on them are 240v breakers. There is what is called a twin or split breaker that has two screws that are on the same phase. These are for wiring two 110v circuits, when you run out of spaces in the panel.

Double check everything. This is a relatively easy circuit to wire, even for homeowners. If the heater does not work them something is wrong so do not leave the circuit energized.

Nov 22, 2008 | Fahrenheat Electric Convector Baseboard...

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