Question about Air Conditioners

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Carrier WeatherMaker I gas furnace

I have (2) Carrier WeatherMaker I (17-19 years old) gas furnaces. Both come on but no gas ever gets to the burner and the intermittent igniter doesn't do it normal "tick, tick, tick". I've checked the gas valves and they are all open. After I turn the unit on the ventilation motor run but no gas can be heard. I even tried to light the gas at the orfice but nothing happened. I have cleaned the intermittant pilot metal (the rods that make the spark), the flame sensing rod and the the contacts on the High Voltage board for the intermittant igniter.I also have a sensor that I'm not sure what it does. It has three wires attached to the back with a red reset button in the middle of the three wires. On the front is a single copper wire approx. 18" long that was haphazzardly wrapped the 3 burners. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Michael

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  • 42 more comments 
  • mkilloy Nov 04, 2008

    I switched the igniter from another furnace and that did no good. Is there a way to test and igniter?

  • mkilloy Nov 04, 2008



    That wire that is protruding is the flame sensor or the intermittant igniter (I assume). My orginal explanation of the problem explains I already cleaned these two items (with emory cloth). That also did no good.

  • mkilloy Nov 05, 2008

    My previous comment already stated that I did replace the igniter.

  • mkilloy Nov 05, 2008

    Thanks for the more logical explanation of what should happen. Is the pressure or vacuum switch usually located in a particular place? Thanks

  • mkilloy Nov 06, 2008

    Thanks for information but I'm pretty sure the previous post is close to the solution. I'm sure the themostats are OK. I just need to figure out how to test a pressure switch and possibly a rollout safety limit switch.

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    I guess I'm just stupid but I've been looking for the vacuum/pressure switch for over an hour (with someone else's help) and I can't find it. I even called a parts supply house and she said the only two pressure switches they had related the the hi and low side for the A/C. I'll keep looking.Thanks.

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    Thanks for the suggestion but since I have no flame,no spark and no gas it's going to hard make any of those adjustment. I'm trying to still find the pressure/vacuum switch.

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    So, since my draft/vent motor comes on when the thermostat is set for more heat (therefore I'm getting power but no spark), should I assume the next logical solution is the igniter itself. If so, is there anyway to test it. The least expensive one I've found it approx. $100.

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    I'm also assuming after reading the article about the intermittant pilot (I know I have that particular style) that my system most likely does NOT have a presure/vacuuum switch (That's why I can't find it).

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    I've looked again at my draft induction motor. The squirrel cage is mounted horizontally and the motor sit above it. I have looked very carefully and can say almost without question that there is not pressure/vacuum hose on my unit. Does anyone know if that could be true. I've looked and I've looked.

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    Thanks for posting but the A/C portion of the unit works fine. I'm having problems with the furnace.

  • mkilloy Nov 07, 2008

    That website is almost exclusively A/C information. I have a Carrier FURNACE. They do not even list Carrier. Thanks for trying.

  • mkilloy Nov 09, 2008

    What couplers?

  • mkilloy Nov 09, 2008

    Jasond1011

    I just went up on the roof. I disconnected an end cap on the galvanized gas pipe. I then turned the gas back on. It's definite got gas up to the valve. I haven't tested disparities in voltage but I have cleaned several connector on the ignition module. I've also tried switching some of the parts between each unit (igniter, pilot sensor and the rollout safety limit switch) but it did not good. These units have never had the igniters replaced (I think) but the least expensive one I could find was $131.00 plus shipping. Both of these units did not just stop working at the same time. The rear unit gas stopped 2 years ago and last year the front unit stopped. Do you know if I can test the igniter with any degree of accuracy? Would it be AC voltage or DC voltage? The intermittant igniter has a red cable which can be remove from the ignition module. In the small hole where the red cable slide into the module is a brass pin shaped shaft. Do you think I can test the voltage at that point? If so, how? Last question: Are you SURE all unit have a vacuum/pressure switch? What you said earlier makes sense but I can't find one anywhere on the ventilation motor. Thanks again.

  • mkilloy Nov 10, 2008

    What is the "check valve"? Both furnaces are supplied by a single 2" galvanized pipe that then splits off to supply each unit. I know WITHOUT A DOUBT that gas is getting to the gas valve on each unit. What I need to know is what would cause the gas not to come on. Can a faulty igniter cause the gas not to come on? If so, can I test an igniter? What is the most likely candidate? The gas company replaced my gas meter last year (because we used no gas, I believe that thought the meter was defective).

  • mkilloy Nov 10, 2008

    I don't know if the igniters work. I'm familiar with air being in the lines and therefore having to wait for the gas to get the up to burners (I never hear any gas or air hissing) So, that doesn't seem to be a possibility. I did just remove both igniters. Each measured .3 ohms. So they would appear to be good. My ignition module reads Output: "AC Output 25volts". I put the meter wires in between ground and the connection in the ignition module where the ignition wire plugs in and turned the unit on. It never read any voltages on either unit. What do you think?

  • mkilloy Nov 10, 2008

    I assume by "sensor" you mean pilot sensor. I did clean that with emory cloth. The location of the relay (I assume) is on the board of the ignition module because the pilot sensor is actually connected to the ignition module. I'm familiar with relays but am not sure what it will look like. Also, is there a way to test the pilot sensor? My previous post stated the resistance of the igniter. Did those readings sound ok... .3ohms? Thanks

  • mkilloy Nov 11, 2008

    The resistance for both igniters is: (.3 ohms) not (3 ohms) with the meter set to the lowest setting on the ohm scale. I'll check the reisistance on the pilot sensor and get back to you. We assumed that since the reads were consistant then they are probably both good. Thanks.

  • mkilloy Nov 13, 2008

    I tested both pilot sensors. One read .5 ohms and the other read .9 ohms.

  • mkilloy Nov 14, 2008

    I just checked both pilot sensors. I put the meter on the diode setting. My meter has a audible function on the diode setting. A diode should test good one way but when you switch the leads, it should read nothing . Both pilot sensors gave an audible (both ways). If I understand you correctly, it should read only one way (audible) but not the other way (not audible). If that's the case, then I have two bad pilot sensors and that will cause no gas to get through. Right?

  • mkilloy Nov 15, 2008

    The igniter, pilot sensor and the rollout switch all connect to what I refer to as ignition module (White Rodgers , Model # 50D21-1). I pulled the cover and cleaned all the connectors like I said earlier. Is the relay is on that circuit board? Please clarify where the relay is on the unit. I can't test it if I can't find it. What do you think it will look like and how big is it? In the mean time I'll test the voltage coming to the ignition module to see if any voltages are getting to the unit and get back with you. Thanks again

  • mkilloy Nov 15, 2008

    I just got the readings from both ignition modules. They are notations ("MV", "FP") on each ignition module.

  • mkilloy Nov 15, 2008

    As far as power to the Iginiton module, the REAR furnace has no power at all to any of the terminals where the pilot sensor and igniter hooks connects.



    The FRONT furnace ignition module does have power to a few terminals. Each terminal is designated with "letters"..... "MV" = 0 volts A/C

    "FP" = 27 volts A/C

    "TH" = 26.4 volts A/C

    Are these the power readings (tests) you are referring to? Are these any help?

  • mkilloy Nov 15, 2008

    One more comment: I just re-tested my pilot sensors again. This time one read: .5 ohms but the other one read 2.3ohms. Should I be concerned that I have a bad sensor?

  • mkilloy Nov 15, 2008

    Another comment: I put both sensors into the furnace with the know good voltages (or at least some voltages) and neither caused the unit to fire up.

  • mkilloy Nov 15, 2008


    Visual checks

    1) After the prepurge delay (if applicable) the valve opens and the ignition (sparks) starts

    2) The burner flame will light

    3) The ignition (sparks) stops

    Troubleshooting the system consists of checking for these visual indications. The chart on the next page defines the proper

    action if any of

    Solid On Normal - Control ON

    One Flash False flame signal

    Two Flashes No Flame Detected

    Three Flashes Safety Drive Fault

    Four Flashes N/A

    Five Flashes MV Drive Fault

    OFF No Power / Internal Fault

    these indications does not occur.



    Last comment: It's dark here. I went up on the roof after seeing the above instructions for troubleshooting the Universal Igniton control module replacemet for my current module. Neither of my LEDs stays on. The rear unit (the LED never comes on). The front unit (The LED flashes once and then goes off). False flame signal .... what can we deduce by that? Thanks

  • mkilloy Nov 16, 2008

    What does the milivolt generator look like? And where will it be located? (most of the time).

  • mkilloy Nov 17, 2008

    That is the exact universal ignition module that my furnace uses. Your suggestion was exactly what I was thinking. The only hitch is the furnace with the "possibly bad transformer but good ignition" has the original ignition module (it looks very faded, part # LH33WP001B). But I will switch it and tell you the results. Thanks again.

  • mkilloy Nov 20, 2008

    We have successs!! I switched the older ignition module to the front furnace (newer ignition module) and the unit fired up. I'm going to order a new ignition module. I just need to figure out which transformer is bad on the back unit. I actually have two contactors (that also supply 24v) and I believe (1) transformer. You've been a great help and very patient. Do you want to know the results of the rear furnace or would you like me to "Accept This Solution". Either way, I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

  • mkilloy Nov 21, 2008

    Extremely helpful and very logical in his approach to my problem. Thanks for all your help. I'll definitely be using the service again.
    Michael

  • mkilloy Nov 24, 2008

    I thought you'd like this. I went up on the roof this afternoon. I was going to test the voltage readings of the transformer (on the good furnance) and then compare it to the furnace on the back of the building. Well, the vent squirrel fan on the had broken and shot out about 4-5 rusted fins. I neglected to see if the furnace still "fired up" with gas. It definite still had power. So, I decided to exchange the whole motor/fan assembly from the back unit (that had a good sounding and running vent fan and motor). Everything went fine but no gas. Same problem as before. No problem... maybe the fan lockup and ruined the ignition module (I ordered one on Friday). That should fix it... maybe. Well, I just came down (7:10pmEST) and turned the unit on (that I had replaced the motor/fan assembly). Guess what. The second squirrel fan tore up. It shot out about 2-5 rusted fins. I'm going to see if I can find the squirrel cage fan locally then replace the ignition module. If that doesn't work, I'll be emailing you again... if you don't mind. Thanks

  • mkilloy Nov 25, 2008

    I got two of the blower fans (Fasco brand) and installed one. Now, I'm just waiting for the new ignition control module. I possibly could have gotten two wires on the blower motor mixed up (and caused the ignition module not to work) but I don't think so since I marked each with tape.

  • mkilloy Nov 28, 2008

    It's been an exercise in patience. I installed a new Fasco blower wheel on Wednesday and unit came on with gas and the vent motor (the older ignition module was NOT bad as I had suspected after the blower wheel malfunctioned). However, the blower wheel is not the correct size (it's too small). Sparks were flying out the the vent duct (nothing was contacting the rotation of the blower wheel). The last thing I noticed before I turned the unit off was that the blower wheel has gotten 'fire engine" red. NOT GOOD! The blower wheel was not pulling enough air through the system. Part of the problem (besides the blower wheel being too small) was that when I installed it, I left a 1/2" to 3/4" air gap on the bottom of the blower wheel which probably was not allowing a good draw of air. The flame from the burners were also drifting slightly upwards and therefore were not being burned in the heat exchanger ... NOT GOOD!) My new Fasso 1-6052 blower wheel (two are on-order) along with adjusting the blower wheel to close the air gap should fix my issue. Hope I haven't bored you. Thanks for your patience. I'll keep you posted with my progress.

  • mkilloy Dec 03, 2008

    I just installed the correct Fasco blower fan. Everything seems OK but, the blower fan gets red hot. Is that normal. I understand it's venting a tremendous amount of heat through the system but that just seems TOO HOT. Thanks for any of your time.

  • mkilloy Dec 04, 2008

    Thanks again for any information. The motor itself is running fine but the fan blower I installed is getting so hot it's turning red from the heat of the flame. Is it possible to have too much gas in the sysem and is that what could have caused the older fans to have gotten messed up? I had put a small blower fan on this unit first. That one also turned "cherry red", it got so hot. I assumed, since the size of the fan was smaller than the original and there was a small air gap, that the bigger and correct size blower fan would correct the overheating problem. I installed this blower fan last night and could swear I saw gas flames coming up almost to the blower fan itself. Thanks again for your responses.

  • mkilloy Dec 04, 2008

    I've been reading and someone suggested the unit is getting "overfired". Maybe too much gas? The motor is running fine but the blower wheel is getting way too hot. What is an "overfired" furnace and can I check the main gas valve (MV)? Thanks

  • mkilloy Dec 05, 2008

    The stack (vent ducting for the exhaust) is short only about 8-10". I can see it very easily and the blower wheel and there is definitely no obstruction. The two flames are are light bright blue. Approximately 1 - 1 1/4" inches in diameter and approximately 6-8" in length. One other thought I had yesterday. The entire combustion area (gas valve, burners, (blower wheel & motor), etc. are being observed by me without the (2) side panels that cover this combustion area. Could these panels not being installed allow more air flow (because air is not being restricted by the panels) and therefore cause the flame to burn hotter or bigger or just not the way it's supposed to burn?

  • mkilloy Dec 05, 2008

    One other question. Can I adjusted the flame via the gas valve, if in fact, it sounds to you like its too big. Also, (I have some rust in the unit after 17 years) should I be looking for cracks in the heat exchanger, vent ducting, etc.?

  • mkilloy Dec 06, 2008

    The flame diameter is definitely correct but as I thought about it, I can't actually see the length of the flame. Since the burners are further in the unit (and I'm Not sticking my head in there while it's burning) I'm not really sure how long the flames are. Give me a little while to get some pictures. The flame's length is a real concern to me because I observed them at night time. I could swear that I saw blue fire reaching almost to the blower fan (which has to be a least 36" from the burners). I know this sound improbable but what else would explain the blower wheel getting so hot that it looks like molten metal (I installed a the new smaller blower wheel and the after approimately 10 minutes of the unit being on warped the entire blower wheel). I want to get a better look at the flames actual length. In the meantime, I read the regulator in the gas valve can overtime cause more gas volume (and heat exchanger rust) because the spring (responsible for the volume) can get weaker. It could be adjusted if only slightly but I'm not even attempting this if I can't see the entire flame. A spot on the vent pipe (I failed to mention) also has rusted a small hole into the metal. But since the hole is on the vent pipe, it really shouldn't have much of an effect. I really appreciate your time. Thanks again and I'll get those photos sent.

  • mkilloy Dec 06, 2008

    Sorry. I didn't answer your question. No my flames don't look like that. This is a rooftop furnance. The flames come out of two orfices and get "sucked into" the heat exchanger via the draft motor and fan. One other thought. One site also suggested that if your gas flame, while burning, sounded like a jet then you may have too much gas pressure (due again, possibly to a bad gas valve regulator). My gas flame, while burning, sounds like a jet engine taking off.

  • mkilloy Dec 12, 2008

    I've been too busy to get photos. Please be a little more patient and I'll get them to you.Thanks. I didn't want you to think I forgot.

  • mkilloy Jan 03, 2009

    I went up to take a picture of the flames yesterday. The unit would come on but then go out. I removed the exterior cover to expose the heat exchanger to see if anything was wrong. Nothing. But, I noticed the flame on the right hand side was not burning straight like the left hand flame. The right hand flame seemed to float to the right and then go out. Upon closer inspection (after I put my head into the furnace), I notice the flame was being allowed to be "sucked" through a hole in a piece of metal. A rusted hole that isn't supposed to be there. But the rusted part in not part of the actual heat exchanger but attaches to it. The part is the duct work for the exhaust and also supports the exhaust blower and motor. I'll try and send photos later. But I'm sure I need (2) of the parts. Both units have rusted holes in them. That's my latest update. Now I just need to find the parts. Thanks for you time and patience.

  • mkilloy Jan 13, 2009

    Just wanted you to know the front furnace is doing great. I fixed the sheet metal (affixed a metal piece to cover the rust out tab, primed and painted with a high heat engine paint and put a muffler wrap around that same piece to prevent the same problem). In the meantime the older ignition module I had taken from the back unit died. I had a new one on hand and installed it. Everything seems to be working great. I'm sure I can fix the rear unit as well thanks to your help. Thanks so much for your help and patience. Michael

  • mkilloy Feb 09, 2009

    Jason,

    I just thought you might like an update on the furnace repairs you've been helping me with. The front unit is working great. I ended up with a new blower wheel, new ignition module and repairing the draft motor vent/duct work. Unlike your unit where you covered the rusted holes, both of our furnaces had a tab that stuck into the heat exchanger that had completely rusted off. What made it more difficult to diagnose was the fact that you couldn't see the rusted off tab unless you put you head into the unit. Then the problem was evident. Anyway, the rear furnace also has a new blower wheel, new ignition module and repaired draft motor vent/duct. The unit comes on, the igniter ignites but no gas is there. I measure the voltages (like before) and there is no voltage on the "MV" leg of the igntion module. Now, I just have to figure out where that voltage originates from and I think I'll have my problem resolved. I think before you said the voltages probably come from one of the transformers. Thanks again for all the help.

    Michael

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13 Answers

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  • 55 Answers

Personally; I would check the "check valve" Make sure no dirt or foreign objects are plugging it. Also the gas jets and regulator.
You did'nt say if both furnaces are hooked to the same gas line. If so, You'll need a regulator on both lines set accordingly to the standards of the furnaces.
It all else fails...call the gas company.
Good Luck

Posted on Nov 10, 2008

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If the ignitors work then there may be air in the lines , which then it could take some trys to get the air out, that is if both of them are having an igniting problem , but first make sure the ignitors work
what have you got as for tests so far?

Posted on Nov 09, 2008

  • 23 more comments 
  • jason Nov 10, 2008

    if the ignitors don't ignite then the gas valve will not open,, without power , check for continuity thru the rod , look for anything that would indicate that it is defective

  • jason Nov 10, 2008

    ignitors commonly go in all furnaces!

  • jason Nov 10, 2008

    well you may have a bad sensor that is not allowing the relay for the ignitor to engage or the relay is bad

    see if you get power to the relay at start , then also check the sensor

  • jason Nov 10, 2008

    yes that is fine for the ignitors , disconect the sensor and read me the resistance

  • jason Nov 10, 2008

    both ignitors read this 3 ohms?

  • jason Nov 11, 2008

    yes , they are both good , I was a little worried when you said 3 ohm

    i'll wait till you give me some readings from those sensors , then we'll see if we have to check anything else or not

  • jason Nov 14, 2008

    ok , your going to need to try the diode check thru the sensor and see if it becomes open ( the .5 ohm sensor ) if it does then you need a new sensor , already i think the other sensor is bad

    so check that one but also check the relay box for an open on the power input side of the relay , also check components on the relay circuit

    then let me know what you get

  • jason Nov 14, 2008

    also check for power to the relay when you try to run the heat , if the power comes there then the relay is bad , if not then you will need to test why , i am thinking that the relays quit from undetermined cause at this point , so let me know what you get , this may end up being the same problem on the other unit as well , no tick , tick ,tick means either the relay is not working because of the ignitor, sensor or because the relay is faulty or finally no power to the relay at spark time which then would mean no gas valve opening for gas

    so let me know what you get from those tests

  • jason Nov 15, 2008

    all that does is allow more power thru and yes it is for a diode check , but those sensors don't work that way( like a diode) that was just to see if they became an open in that setting , so that means that the sensor is probably good.

    the problem now will be no power to relay or faulty relay, so you will need to check the relay for power to it , or also look for a fuseable component( looks like a resistor or small capacitor) look for an open there , if no power comes to the relay

  • jason Nov 15, 2008

    I will explain how they work , if the circuit is open it won't light , and the sensor won't work

    if the ignitor lights there is no open in the circuit , but the sensor could be on its way out and not really working enough to see the ignitor lit and then therefore would not open the gas valve



    so now we know there is not an open there in the sensor or the ignitor , but the problem now must be in the relay or the power to the relay or component in between , so that is the next test , (power)

    let me know what you find out about power there

  • jason Nov 15, 2008

    if your not getting any power on the other furnace then either the power is not going to that furnace or the transformer then needs to be replaced for the 25v and 27v input to the ignition modual for the furnace pilot(fp)volts and

    yes that is high resistance on that sensor and it should be replaced , but the milivolt generator ( mv ) ( sets in with the pilot ) will give a false pilot reading , thus that should be replaced then , since it controls the gas valve and relays to open or close

    so the one ignition modual is good but the pilot generator and flame sensor are bad and need replaced

    for the other unit the transformer most likely is the culprit , but you may need to also replace the pilot generator on it also , plus the sensor should be replaced with it also

  • jason Nov 17, 2008

    you may not have that sensor on there but then your set up would be like this here at this link is a pdf of that type of model # http://www.white-rodgers.com/wrdhom/pdfs... see the sensor for the flame and spark probe , is this how yours is set up ?

    because if that spark don't start then it could be a bad control module , that controls the spark

    Try and switch the modules to see if it will work with the one with the good transformer



    so it would be that the one with the good transformer may have a bad module , and the one with the bad transformer might have a good module , so try switching them( modules) and see if the one with the good transformer will come on with the other module , other wise then it would be the flame sensor

    let me know what you get from that info and or module swap



  • jason Nov 21, 2008

    yes! I would like to know what happens! And I'm glad it fired up! I was thinking that the module was probably bad since everything else looked decent, again I'm very happy we got the one to fire up!

    you can still accept my solution since we got the one working , and you can still leave a comment after you accept my solution , and I will get a notification that you accepted and when you leave a comment afterwards I will get that notification also , if for some reason you can't leave a comment and still need help with the other unit ( which will not happen , cause I still see some come back and leave a comment long after) you can always ask me from my profile and I'll be happy to help! fixing electronics for me is not just a job but its also fun for me and a good challenge! so I will be looking forward to see what happens with the other unit . and i will give you more help if you need it for the other one.



    electech

  • jason Nov 21, 2008

    Thank you! , and if you need further assistance on the other unit , I'll be here to help!



    electech

  • jason Nov 24, 2008

    no problem ! I'll be checking back to hear the results you get. and help you if needed , because its not about the 4 dollars , but its about helping those in need !

    talk to ya soon!



    electech

  • jason Nov 25, 2008

    Hello michael,

    Even if you did hook the fan motor wires up backwards it wouldn't matter becaus its ac power ( which means the wires are changing polarity from - to + 60 times a second ( 60hz) ) and if it were dc power going to the fan motor then it would just run backwards , but that wouldn't cause the module to fail , the controlling chips inside just fail from use and thermal breakdown, but sometimes just faulty IC chips cause the failure or to much of a current draw can also cause a failure in the module , but thats about it

    Thanks for the update! ttyl!



    electech

  • jason Dec 04, 2008

    it is going to get hot , but if you smell the motor like its been burning then the motor may be defectively made or there is to much power ( current or voltage ) to the motor.

    if you suspect that it is getting too hot , just try to smell the motor after it has been running to see if it smells like its burning or if you can smell the burning comming out the heat vents.

    then also check the voltage to it to see if it is correct , if the voltage is correct and you do smell a burning smell comming from it then the motor probably is defective

  • jason Dec 04, 2008

    what I forgot to say is if the voltage is to low , from say a bad connection , then that could also cause it to run hot and slow , so make sure connections are secure and all wires look good , also does the circuit breaker get hot? or any wires ?

  • jason Dec 05, 2008

    have you made sure that the stack does not have bird nesting maybe blocking the outlet of the gas fumes and extra heat, also" if there is" to much gas then that would be because of the gas valve that opens up for fire up , but right now i would make sure that there is nothing blocking it from flowing out freely ( the extra heat and the fumes )

    also what do the flames look like in color and size ( length )?

  • jason Dec 06, 2008

    you cannot adjust the flame , but it don't sound like you need to either since the flames are correct in size and color

    but having the panels open will cause the flame heat to not flow correctly

    so just make sure there are no other air leaks in the rusted areas

    can you upload any pictures of it in that area? so I can see what it looks like

    is this what they look like?

  • jason Dec 06, 2008

    I meant to say is that the color of the flames , but I'll wait to see a photo of the flames , and it is possible that the valve is opening but the seat is worn out or somewhere in side is worn and allowing more pressure , being if that too is 17-19 yrs. old , is it?

  • jason Dec 13, 2008

    no problem , I'll ill be looking for your next reply

  • jason Jan 03, 2009

    well , I had to repair my furnace. the heating element went and i had to regrease the exhaust motor ( as it seems I have to do every year now )the motor will squeal and will take a lot longer to get spinning ) and the furnace is old also and lays sideways in my crawl space under the house , and its also rusting , but I do have another one for when this one completely gives , just using it till it can't be used anymore.

    but yea rusting holes will cause the flame not to heat correctly ( being sucked out the hole ) and even cause the flame to go out ( making the ignition modual keep restarting and finally failing itself from restarting all the time ) also if the exhaust motor is getting heated by the redirection of the flame then it can and will cause spinning and motor horse power problems

    I screwed sheet metal on the holes I have , but I think next year I will just put my other one in before this one gets to bad. well let me know if anything else happens or if you think something might need general maintenance.

  • jason Jan 13, 2009

    glad to help!



    jason

  • jason Feb 11, 2009

    hey , glad to help , I had problems with my power source on my computer , had to rebuild it



    if the new module is powering up and the ignitor igniting but the gas is not comming out , then the MV is not sending volts and micro amps , because of : module not set to correct flame sensing mode , stuck or faulty valve , or ac voltage supply from transformer, faulty module

    so check:

    sensor connection and key set mode for the flame sensing

    ac voltge from the transformer.

    connection to the valve and valve circuit check.

    also is there any led signal for the fault on the module ?

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I would have the couplers checked and or changed.

Posted on Nov 08, 2008

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Go to the blow link and you find all about your problem---

http://home.howstuffworks.com/how-to-maintain-an-air-conditioner.htm

thks

Posted on Nov 07, 2008

  • rush2robby
    rush2robby Nov 07, 2008

    plz. try the above link also may be helpful--

    http://www.repairclinic.com/0047_16.asp

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The heated air then cools down in your home's various rooms and returns to the furnace through return air grills and ductwork.The cold returning air enters back through the air filter into the furnace to complete another heating loop.
Sometimes there is a humidifier mounted on the furnace or the return air ductwork.
Furnaces come in different efficiencies measured in AFUE.
Once in a while things don't work quite right and you need to troubleshoot a gas furnace repair or relight a standing pilot if it has one. Most newer furnaces have electronic ignitions and need special troubleshooting.


The intermittent pilot system uses an electronically controlled high voltage electrical spark to ignite the gas pilot and then subsequently the main burners, when the thermostat calls for heat.
The hot surface ignition system uses an electronically controlled resistance heating element not unlike a light bulb filament (and shown in the photo above), to ignite the gas burner.
See the Tutorial Overview and Repair of the Electronic Ignition Furnace for troubleshooting repair tips for electronic ignition furnaces.

Posted on Nov 07, 2008

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  • Air Conditio... Master
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If the ignitor sparks, without igniting the gas at all, that means that there is no gas.
This is often caused by defective coils on the gas valve.
The gas valve has electrical coils that, if energized, open the gas valve.
If one or more coils are faulty, then the gas valve won't open and the gas will not ignite.
This goils work similarly to termocouples, and are difficult to test.
When they start giving you troubles, it is better to replace the whole valve.

Posted on Nov 07, 2008

  • Ginko
    Ginko Nov 07, 2008

    This is not an electric furnace, the thermostat has nothing to do with this.

    I repost my comment, adding a little follow up:

    If the ignitor sparks, without igniting the gas at all, that means that there is no gas.
    This is often caused by defective coils on the gas valve.
    The gas valve has electrical
    coils that, if energized, open the gas valve.
    If one or more coils are faulty, then the gas valve won't open and the gas will not ignite.
    This goils work similarly to termocouples, and are difficult to test.
    When they start giving you troubles, it is better to replace the whole valve.


    The thermostat post from other expert was a copy and paste from a website, the refernce was missing, I report the link.


    HowStuffWorks "Thermostat Maintenance Tips: Guidelines"


  • Ginko
    Ginko Nov 07, 2008

    Depends on the model,

    In this example, on a WEATHERMAKER 38YKC the pressure switch is number five:







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Hi A thermostat cover that's improperly installed or inadvertently bumped can cause the heater or air conditioner to fail to start. Or the thermostat base may slip out of level, causing it to operate incorrectly. A far more common problem, however, is dirt. Dirt can affect the thermostat's calibration and interfere with its operation. If a thermostat set for 70 degrees Farenheit, for example, is really maintaining the temperature at 73 degrees Farenheit, the additional energy used can increase your fuel bill by as much as 7 percent. To prevent this, check your thermostat for accuracy every year before the heating season begins.

Other problems with a thermostat can often be traced to switches on the base and wires near the bimetallic element that loosen and become corroded. Tighten loose connections with a screwdriver, and use a cotton swab to clean away corrosion.

Posted on Nov 05, 2008

  • ABHISHEK.C
    ABHISHEK.C Nov 07, 2008

    HI
    The flame of gas range burners should be steady and slightly rounded, with a light-blue tip. The flame should be quiet and should respond to adjustments made at the control knobs. Most burner troubles can be quickly solved by adjusting the air shutter mixer plate, which is located at the end of the burner tube near the knob controls. Turn a small screw on the plate, slide the plate open or closed, and tighten the setscrew. 

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Following your sequence of operation tells me the following. forced draft motor starts. good. it should then close a vacuum or pressure switch that tells the control board the fan is on find that switch and check it with a meter to see if its closed. check terminal in and terminal out. you should read no voltage if switch is closed. then the board sends power to the click click click ignitor, and once it does then the board opens the gas valve and burners light and combustion heats up the bulkhead and a fan sensor or the board brings on the big blower fan. your sequence of operation stops at the ignitor. usually the ignitor arcs to the case if its gettin power from the board. no arc is either a bad ignitor that getting power or a bad board thats failing to send power to the ignitor. some ignitors can be seperated from the board and a meter used to see if power is sent . that tells you if ignitor or board is bad. some are part of the control board. you may wind up buying an ignitor first, cheap part and if that doesn't cure then a control board. expensive part. bear in mind its a good idea to have any gas furnace that old checked every year by a pro with a monoxide meter. they do crack, they do leak carbon monoxide and they can be deadly if they have failed. at least look for any unusual flame pattern when main blower comes on , its whats called flame lift. the gas company may check it for saftey for you for free! theres a good word.

Posted on Nov 04, 2008

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  • Karen Duncan Nov 06, 2008

    the vacuum switch or pressure switch is usually to the upper right side of the furnace facing it. usually a tube connected to the bulkhead of the furnace or draft chamber that senses pressure when the motor comes on sometimes you can apply light pressure by mouth on the tube and hear it click shut, some you check with a meter.usually you see two terminals on it power in , power out . usually 24 volts. after draft motor starts you should show no voltage between terminals when checked with a meter. . this tells you the control is closed and power in and out has now become one and meter is sensing same thing on both terminals.

  • Karen Duncan Nov 09, 2008

    if both furnaces are the same why can't you switch parts till you pinpoint problem if a part works in furnace a it should work in furnace b? also check voltages against each other till an anomally is observed!

  • Karen Duncan Nov 09, 2008

    wait a minute ,are both furnaces not firing? if so then you have a no gas condition. a valve is closed somewhere or your gas is turned off by gas company . highly unusual to have two gas furnaces and neither fires. common factor is the gas source. good luck

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Hi!!!

try to check and replaced the ignitor

Posted on Nov 04, 2008

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1. Take off the upper cover on the furnace to access the burner unit
2.On the leftmost burner, you should see what looks like a wire protruding on the far side.
3. Run a piece of emory cloth or sanpaper over it a few times. This will knock off any dust or contamination that may have accumalted
4. Also, make sure you have clean air filter insatled.

try this
thanks.

Posted on Nov 04, 2008

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I think you need to replace Ignitor assembly .

Posted on Nov 04, 2008

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You may need a new spark maker that light the gas that is supposed to be coming out of the nozzle. The sensor may also be broken and causing it not to spark or light. You will need to get it checked by a professional to see if the sensor is broken or if there are any other problems and to get it repaired.

Posted on Nov 04, 2008

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1) Be sure the thermostat is set to "Heat" (if yours is a heating and cooling system).

2) Be sure the furnace's circuit breaker is on or that its fuse has not blown. Check both the main electrical panel and any secondary sub-panels that supply power to the unit. If the circuit has blown or tripped, reset the circuit breaker or replace the fuse. If the circuit blows again, there is a probably a short in the electrical system providing power to the furnace. Either call an electrical contractor or see here for electrical repairs.

3) Be sure the furnace's power switch is turned on; it is usually located next to or inside the furnace cabinet. If it isn't on, turn it on, and wait for the furnace to engage.

4) The motor may need to be reset because of an overload. Look for a "Reset" button near the blower motor's housing and, if you find one, press it. If nothing happens, wait about 30 minutes for the motor to cool, and then try the "Reset" button again.

5) Turn off the power to the furnace at the main electrical panel or sub-panel. Look for a fuse in the power switch. If there is one there, it may have blown. Replace the fuse (be sure to follow the instructions in your owner's manual). If you don't have an owners's manual or are unclear about what it will take to do this, call a furnace repair technician.

6) With a gas furnace, the pilot light may have gone out or the gas valve may be shut off. Check the furnace's ignition.

7) If it still doesn't work, be sure the thermostat isn't faulty.

8) If none of this works, call a heating contractor or furnace repair technician.

Posted on Nov 04, 2008

  • micromaster
    micromaster Nov 05, 2008

    it's better to replaced the unit igniter. this part could be faulty.

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