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Genset will not make power

No voltage at brushes that are known good. no excitaion to brushes to make voltage. do you have the resistance reading for rotor and stater. thank you.

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Go look here.

Carl

Posted on Dec 05, 2008

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GENERATOR WILL RUN BUT DON'T PRODUCE ELECTRIC


Hi and welcome to FixYa, I am Kelly.

Without a model number... I am guessing about what type / brand and MODEL of generator you have. I have to assume it is a Coleman Power mate.

Try flashing the field. Do this.. take and electric drill and plug into the outlets of the generator. Turn on the output power GENERATOR ON. Squeeze the drill trigger and rotate the chuck as fast as you can. This will induce voltage into the stator and they usually will start producing power. When it does produce power it will try to yank the drill chuck head out of your hand so keep that in mind.

If the above does not work...
Remove the small cover from the center of the endbell. It covers the end of the rotor shaft and has 2 brushes under the cover.
INSPECT the brushes visually (do not remove them yet)
(Generator OFF!)
Use a meter to read resistance by probing the electrical contacts of the brushes. You MUST read LOW resistance. This is the rotor winding.
No resistance or high resistance
Remove the brushes inspect for damage. Try to probe the slip rings of the rotor. (You might have to make a 14/2 Romex electiral wire extension to get some solid copper wires to touch the rotor slip rings) Again you must read LOW reistance.

If you have low resistance and the brushes are good.....
Reinstall the brushes. (TEST for AC) Start generator
STILL NO OUTPUT?!!!!
Use a meter on DC to read AVR voltage output to the brushes by probing the brush terminals. You should read 3 - 7 VDC. No voltage.... hmmmm Possibly an AVR problem but...

Try this.
Rig up a 9 Volt battery that you TAPE the wires to the battery terminals and the case of the battery
Just loosely connect the 2 wires to the brushes. Wrap the battery with a rag it might explode if you don't remove it fast enough. Your going to yank this off as soon as it produces power QUICKLY.

Plug in a light or a small fan so you can see that power is being produced. Let it run a few minutes before shutting it down.

To do anything else I need to know your generator model number to do winding and voltage regulator checks.

Thanks for choosing FixYa,
Kelly

Aug 30, 2011 | Coleman Power Generators

1 Answer

Stop produceing power after only 20 of running


Hi and wleome to FixYa, I am Kelly.

Pull off the small cover on the OUTSIDE of the end bell that covers the bearing and the brushes. Using a meter on resistance scale of R X 100 or R x 1000 probe the brushes and see if you read any resistance You should see a reading of much less than 1000 ohms that would be the rotor winding resistance. If you do not have resistance then remove the brushes and check the condition and LENGHT of the brushes. The brushes should be no less than 3/8" long. If you can get your test leads into the brush holes probe the slip rings and read the rotor resistance. You must read resistance under 500 Ohms. No resistance or can not reach the slip rings remove the end bell and test rotor resistance again but probing the 2 slip rings.

Most of the time the brushes wear out or break off when a generator just suddenly stops working.

Reinstall the end bell and read for a DC voltage reading of 3 - 9 volts across the brushes after you know the brushes are in good working order. No voltage then the AVR has failed. If you have voltage then the final tests would be continuity checks of the diode and capacitor in the end bell and finally the stator windings. The dilde will ony read resistance in ONE direction. It should NOT read open or shorted in both directions. The capacitor check use R x 10,000 and probe the capacitor terminals. Reverse the leads and probe it again. You should see a brief jump in resistance and the meter will drift to infinity EACH time you reverse the leads.

If you want parts information I need the model number off of the unit data plate to get that information for you.

Thanks for choosing FixYa,
Kelly

Aug 25, 2011 | Coleman Powermate Powermate 5000W...

1 Answer

My Generac Guardian 15,000 Watt Model 004582 generator is putting out low voltage (about 45V on the 120V side). The trouble lights on the voltage regulator are lit as follows: Regulator light - lit red...


Hi Jake and welcome to FixYa. I am Kelly. Check both CB1 and CB 2 circuit breakers by pushing them to OFF and then back ON. Open the brush block access and then start the unit. You should read voltage at the brushes of 5 - 14 VDC on the terminals of the brushes. If you do not have 5 - 14 VDC at the brushes the probable suspect is the automatic voltage regulator (AVR). If you do have the correct voltages then with the unit OFF.... do a resistance check across the armature coil by reading resistance at the brush block terminals. You should read around 180 Ohms. It can be more or less resistance but for sure less than 500 Ohms. If you do NOT get a resistance reading remove the brush block assy and test the armature directly by reading across BOTH slip rings. You should get the resistance previously stated. If you have resistance then most likely there is a problem with the brushes. (Too short / broken carbon brush / missing spring or a defective terminal.) Without knowing the AVR output voltage and the armature resistance reading at this point it is difficult as to how to advise you to proceed. Let me know the values you obtain for AVR DC voltage at the brushes and actual ARMATURE resistance reading. Make sure you use R x 1000 on the meter. I am having thoughts of maybe a broken wire somewhere inside the control panel also.

Thanks for choosing FixYa,
Kelly

Jan 09, 2011 | Generac Guardian 100 Amp Transfer Switch...

1 Answer

Generac 5250 with a 8 hp Honda engine. Runs fine, no output


Take a resistance reading across the brushes with and Ohm meter. (not running) You should read a low resistance. If you have no resistance across the brushes then then either the brushes are not mating with the armature or the the armature is open.
IF you have resistance then the AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) in the endcap has failed. With the engine running and the Brush block disconnected you should have 4 - 12 VDC on the two wires going to the brush block. No voltage = bad AVR.

Thanks for choosing FixYa.

Kelly

Jul 30, 2010 | Power Generators

1 Answer

Powermate 5500 no Power on plugs, shorted stator symptoms?


Stator resistances should be around .5 ohms. This may look like a short to you. Unhook the regulator from the field brushes and put 12 volts on the field winding. you should get output to partially light a bulb..maybe 60 volts. Remember to use 12 volts dc on the fields and don't reverse the polarity.
If there is output then the avr(voltage regulator) is probably bad. If there is no voltage then check the resistance on the brush contacts. through the bushes and field. Maybe around 25 ohms. Your generator manual can give the exact ranges. No resistance then clean the brushes and slip rings and check again. No resistance...take reading on the slip rings. No resistance...open field...bad rotor. Good luck....keep posting until problem is resolved.

Jul 01, 2009 | Coleman Powermate Premium Plus 6250W...

1 Answer

Does not generate electric power at 110V or 220V.


To flash fields the genset has to have rings and brushes. The ring towards the bearing or towards you is positive and the back ring is negative. The rings and brushes are on the rotor, which is the part that spins on the generator end. Place a volt meter on the outlet, start the genset, with a 12V battery apply the positive to the front ring and the negative to the back ring. The voltage should climb up to about 50 - 100Volts or more. If this happens then you will need a Voltage regulator. If voltage does not climb up, then check the rings and brushes. Make sure the brushes have a good length and that they touch the rings and make sure the rings have a shiny copper color to them, if they're black clean them with emory cloth until there is a nice copper color and try flashing the gen again. If nothing happens then you need a new generator end or new generator, which ever you prefer. Make sure to use rubber gloves when flashing and look out for rotating parts.

May 18, 2009 | Coleman Power Generators

1 Answer

Engine runs but no power aat outlet????


Start with brushes and rings. Make sure your rings are clean and the your brushes have a good length. Flash the fields with 12V battery. Apply positive to the brush nearest the bearing and negative to the back brush, while genset is running. Use rubber gloves when doing this and keep hands away from rotating parts. You should see the voltage climb when you flash the fields. This would mean that you need a voltage regulator. If voltage does not climb, then you will need a new genset.

May 15, 2009 | Coleman Power Generators

1 Answer

Generac portable generator doesn't produce power


Remove front cover on the genset and you will see the brushes and rings. Clean the rings if black with emory cloth and inspect brushes. Flash the fields by apply a 12V battery to the brushes. the brush closest to you or the bearing is connected to the positive side of battery and the back brush is negative. You have to do this with genset running. You should notice your voltage climb up to over 50Vac maybe even over 100Vac. Make sure to use rubber gloves when flashing fields and keep hands away from rotating parts. if voltage does increase when flashing the the voltage regulator is shot. If voltage does not climb then you will need a new genset or generator end.

May 15, 2009 | Power Generators

2 Answers

I have a kohler rv generator that will start .


When this happens, this usually means that your genset is not creating voltage. First thing I would do is disconnect your remote start wire from the genset, this will eliminate the start switch inside the RV. For a shorted remote start switch can cause you genset to shutdown. Second, place a volt meter at a spot where you will be able to read genset voltage. If no voltage is available and your voltage regulator is new, then the problem is with either the rotor or stator. The rotor is the easiest check. You need to reach the brushes. Take a resistance reading, which should be around 20 ohms. Clean the rings and make sure there is enough length on the brushes, at least over 1/2". Next, flash the fields using a 12Vdc battery. Use rubber gloves when doing this. Place the positive side to the ring closest to the bearing and negative goes to the back ring. This is done while genset is running so be careful with rotating parts. Have a volt meter on the output wires. Once you flash the fields the voltage should increase to over 50Vac. If it does then your stator is bad since you installed a new voltage regulator. If the voltage does not increase when flashing, then the rotor is bad.

Apr 10, 2009 | Power Generators

1 Answer

Generators


My answer:

Not much in your original ? to go by as far as any history background of the Genset - if it indeed is a Powermate? Is it? And if so - is it already USED or is it BRAND NEW right out of the box - like many others here who I've already helped out and solved their problem(s)?

If this Genset is USED how many hours are on it. Try to be as accurate as you can - if known? Also - If this is not YOUR originally purchased Genset, but rather bought 2nd hand - did it work right when you first bought it?

Is so BRAND NEW or even USED - then I minds well tell you this first (if you don't already know this). After which I have some tech troubleshooting ??'s I need answered so I can pinpoint the problem.


As you are now hopefully but painfully aware - Powermate has gone totally Bankrupt, and is no longer in business as of this past year or so.

There is hope though - as I state below in the previous Footnote I posted to many having similar problems.

Previous Footnote: It's too late now for all those out there that unfortunately bought these now still Brand New "unserviceable" Powermate units that won't start for whatever, whether still Brand New "NIB", or whether taken out of the box and still not used, and are now seeking some kind of service on them (btw it's a sign of the present day GOP ran economic woes we are in AND it will only get worse - CHINA is going on the very same downward skid right now thanks to you know who - W!). If you buy anything today "made in China" - esp their cheap knockoff Gensets - you better be making a GOOD buying decision - otherwise you will be in the very same situation you are in now with your Powermate Gensets - as China is starting to collapse from within just like this USA economy of ours has been doing for the last 5-6 years to no end! All politics aside as well - as blame is put where it is deserved in my books and we can only blame YOU KNOW WHO! Sorry but true!

NOW -

Any inventory stock of their (Powermate) Gensets - that were once formerly sold in the USA & Canada - have been totally liquidated out to a company in Georgia I was told, and it was said to be true.

I was able to get this NEW added info through another source said to be VERY accurate btw - so hopefully it is.

That Company's name is PRAMAC, and their address and phone # info is:

PRAMAC INDUSTRIES, Inc.

* Regional head office:

1100 Cobb Parkway North C
30062 Marietta, Georgia

Phone: 770-218-5430
Fax : 770 218 2810

or:

* International sales office:

10100 NW 116 Way, Suite 10
33178 Medley, Florida

Phone: 305-888-9911
Fax : 305-888-3711

Site info:

PRAMAC Global Gateway

BUT -

Before you blame me for any possible incorrect Powermate info posted above in regards to that PRAMAC Co, or their contact info - read the GOOD NEWS below first, unless the BRAND NEW part doesn't apply to you here.

The GOOD NEWS is that I spoke with a very close contact inside Home Depot (not saying who so don't even ask), and that person gave me some very GOOD NEWS for those that act on it NOW!

Not tomorrow - Not next week - Not next month - and certainly NOT NEXT YEAR!

DO IT RIGHT NOW!!

I spoke with my Home Depot Corp contact today (using your "not starting" dilemma - as my own - to get a response) to see if anything could be done from their point of view and here's what I was told to do.

What I was told is that if I (you) bring in my (your) ORIGINAL HOME DEPOT CASH REGISTER DATED RECEIPT and speak to the (whichever Home Depot store applies here) Home Depot Store Manager there, and explain to them that the brand new never used Powermate Genset they sold me (you in this case) won't start - they would send your Genset out to their local Genset Service Vendor FREE OF CHARGE BTW, and hopefully get it started for you.

Anything more then that - you would be on your own if it was damaged by you or someone else that tried using it improperly.


NOW - as for your Genset there and the OVER-VOLTAGE condition you say you are experiencing.

I guess my first ? is - Which volt meter are you reading?

The one on your Genset possibly, or from a known Good Quality & good working hand-held DVM meter? If your AC panel meter is defective then that is not going to help matters at all. If your Genset control board is shot most likely something caused that condition from an electrical/electronics standpoint either on the board itself inside the "front panel control box" or else inside the "Gennie power head".

Usually an OVER-VOLTAGE condition occurs when a modification has been done to the Genset, such as say a new (or possibly a bigger wattage) replacement "Gennie power head" that is not rated properly to your engine speed (which btw should be ~ 3600 RPM max). Did you make any such modifications to your stock Genset recently?

If not - then we need to make sure you are getting the proper AC output measurements using a known good DVM meter set to the AC scale and either on 400 or 1000 volts depending on your meter's settings. Hopefully you're not using one of those defunct $3 cheapy Harbor Freight Tools meters either?

With the Genset running at normal idle what voltages are you reading at the 120VAC & the 240VAC outlets - from HOT to NEUTRAL only? Low - High - Sporadic - what? Be precise here - very important!

If you increase the Genset speed up to 1/2 Load speed what voltages are you now reading as well? Try not to run at Full Speed if indeed something had smoked inside the Control Panel such as the Control Board. Check that board out first for signs of damage. Does it look OK?

If this Genset has had HIGH HOURS of run-time on it have you check the "brushes" and/or "slip rings" on the ROTOR it as of yet? If it has brushes are they within factory spec? Are the SLIP RINGS clean and not arched and dirty looking? If the latter is found to be true then the SLIP RINGS need to be cleaned and polished bright again!! Very important!!

If the end plate (cover plate) is taken off (if you feel capable to do this yourself) is the inside fairly clean inside and around the SLIP RINGS & BRUSHES area? Do you smell any BURNT smell inside? If so then possibly either the STATOR or the ROTOR has gone bad! If not take an air hose and thoroughly blow out all the carbon dust & dirt and replace the "end plate" securely.

Unless it's a BRUSHLESS type Genset you have (which I doubt) then the problem possibly lies within the "power head".

Let me know what you find now that you know what to look for?

Based on that we can look still further is it's not covered above.

Best regards to all with the same problems, and hope I helped you out 100% - all political humor/truth aside.

Please post me a reply as to finding this solution being the best resolve to your Powermate problem there by following my recommendations above. Also please rate my troubleshooting fix as well.

Keep me posted and I'll follow up as well.

Best regards,

Frank

Sep 08, 2008 | Coleman Powermate Powermate 5000W...

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