15x70 exit pupil problem

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 20:49:42 +0100, Boris ??tromar

hi Boris across the pond,

The design of the prism seats on these unfortunately allows slide
shifting of a prism sometimes where collimation can become impossible
unless they are manually repositioned.

Also, I agree the collimation article by my friend Ed Zarenski is par
excellent and very interesting, but, so folks will be aware, it is
incorrect to imply prism tilt is not the way to collimate binoculars.
It is actually one of two methods by design for these instruments.
The other is by rotating eccentric objective lens cells. That is
basically impossible to do with the cheap Chinese binos as the cell is
simpler in design with just a plastic retainer holding the lens in
place.

Pete
Bear 15x70 Binocular Collimation
#

I chose not to comment on this statement. I'll be happy with my new pair
of 15x70's.

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

Hi, all,
My experience with Kevin Busarow is that he is a fine dealer who stands
behind his products. I have found that if there is a problem with one of
his products, he is quick to rectify it and he is easy to deal with.
I own 15x70 and a 12x 60 binoculars from Oberwerk and I am very
pleased with them. They are light in weight, so I am able to hand hold
them for short periods as I scan the sky. I find the 15x70 shows more but
the 12x60 is easier to hand hold, as might be expected. I am glad I own
them both. I use the 15x70 with a SkyWindow mirror mount..
Ciao,
Bill Meyers

"

...

Kevin--

i expect that most folks also see you as responsible for your method of
dealing with your customers on this (in a public forum). :-)

clear, dark skies--

mark d.

...

Because Oberwerk is my brand, I am responsible for the final quality
control. Sure, the Chinese manufacturer has occasional quality control
problems, but overall they produce a very good product at a price that makes
large-aperture binoculars affordable for so many people. So don't blame the
them- it's our fault. But again, if you refer to my first email reply to
you, you will see that I explained how this could happen, and I also
apologized for it, then proceeded to work toward a solution. Bottom line is
that although you had a problem, it doesn't warrant negative comments in a
public forum- unless the manufacturer or dealer is unresponsive.

...

lal_truckee--

harh-harh-harh! how do you spell that grunting noise that Tool Man Tim
makes on the tv show "home improvement"? that's what i'm trying to
write here! ;-)

clear, dark skies--

mark d.

I wanted to do the same thing. After all, it's easier to collimate your
binoculars than to send them back over the pond. Unfortunately, they
can't be collimated properly :( I was trying all morning..

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

I didn't know that, sorry.

Well..first, the manufacturer (chinese) had a chance to do something -
use better quality control. The dealer (Oberwerk) is indeed very caring
for the customer. I complained about the product from a certain
manufacturer, not the service of a dealer. Those are two different
things, unfortunately I wasn't clear enough for everybody to understand
the difference.

When people here complain about problems their chinese made telescope (or
other) has, noone is thrashing the telescope "brand" (Celestron, Konus,
etc.), they are talking about the (in this case, chinese) product. And,
although people complain about quality control of those chinese scopes,
they also have nothing but praise for the dealer that helps them when
they are not satisfied with it.

There's an obvious misunderstanding here, I'm doing my best to clear
things up. My complaint was ONLY about the binoculars I received.
DEFFINITELY NOT Oberwerk's service!!!

I agree. But I'm sure everyone interested will read the whole thread and
things will be cleared up. I was wrong to assume I would have to pay the
shipping back to USA. Good customer service is not very common here in
Croatia, and excellent customer service is even more rare. Please read my
posts from this perspective and you'll see I was not complaining about
the Oberwerk company.

P.S.: You should've seen the guys at the store where I bought my first
binocular (a 12x50, chinese I guess - the label said Soligor, they are
like Konus & similar). When I returned there to complain about double
images (misscollimation - but I did not know it then) they said it cannot
be repaired unless they ship it back to Japan (rrright). The look on
their faces (there were two salesmen, perhaps to be sure they can
overpower me if I complain too much) said "go to Japan yourself if you
want it repaired". That was a few years ago. Now, when a dealer says
"we'll replace your binoculars" I'm a happy customer!

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

I think you have misunderstood what Kevin has said.

This is what Kevin said:

"BUT- we also offered to
immediately send a replacement if he preferred. This would have cost him
nothing (and us plenty since he's in Croatia), and there would be no tax due
since it's a warranty replacement. The only issue would be the cost to
return, and in this case we're picking that up as well."

Boris:

This means he will send you a pair today and he will pay for all the shipping,
both ways.

I would imagine that Kevin would also hand select a pair, carefully check it
over to make sure that the new pair he sends you will be perfect.

It seems to me that Kevin is willing to do all that is necessary to take care
of this problem for you.

Jon Isaacs

...

Boris, re-read my reply to your first email- there was no mention about
returning the pair with the problem. There was only an offer for us to send
another pair. When someone says "we'll send another", any question about
shipping is already answered.
I understand you're dissapointed, but it's not right to complain in a public
forum before giving the dealer/manufacturer a chance to do anything- and the
problem is compounded when the information is incomplete and/or incorrect.
Keep in mind that SAA posts, favorable or unfavorable, live for a long time,
and can have a huge impact on a business.

There's a misunderstanding here. I was obviously not clear enough. Axel
asked about oval exit pupils, and I posted the link so he can see what
it's about. I did not mean to say anything bad about your customer
service or you personally. It was not what we were talking about (at
least I thought so). In your e-mail you did not say anything about paying
the shipping. I was just expressing my dissapointment - not with you or
your company, even if I was to pay the shipping again - but with lousy
chinese quality control.

I apologize to Kevin & Oberwerk about all this. My comments were not
adressed to them, I was just dissapointed with the recieved pair.
Everyone told me they take good care about their customers and I was sure
we could sort the problem out. Kevin was very quick to reply to my e-mail
and sent the link to the Cloudynights article about collimating the
binoculars (great article, BTW). Yes, he also said I could return the
15x70 and he'd send me another pair but he forgot to mention anything
about the shipping. That's probably because in USA it's normal for a good
company to provide free shipping to their customers if the product is
faulty. This isn't the case here in Croatia (yet, I hope). I had bad
experience with a previous pair of binoculars (12x50) I bought here in
Zagreb. There's also another reason why I got so upset, but that's not
for posting here in s.a.a.

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

Can't do much better than that for customer service.

In my case, I think I'd prefer to learn how to collimate my binoculars
anyway, with the kind of handholding I'd get from a responsive dealer like
this one it should be easy; after all, eventually the binoculars will go
out of alignment again just from long use, and I'll Be Prepared. I learned
the value of that in Boy Scouts ...

CLIP

--
lal_truckee

Ask for a refund. Give them a chance to make it right. Don't make assumptions.
Been there, done that.
L Brown

Never assume that a company isn't responsible because they don't
immediately answer your email. In my own business, I have found that 7%
of all emails go astray or vanish into cyberspace. Make sure they got
your message. Try the phone. It rarely fails.
L Brown

Boris,
You shouldn't complain about such great customer service. Seriously, you
have no idea how many bad companies there are out there who would never have
handled this as well as they did.
Clear skies.
L Brown

That's quite incomplete to say the least. Boris asked if there was any way
he could repair them since he really didn't want to send them back. I
explained what the problem was, and included the link to the Cloudy Nights
article (because Ed covers this topic pretty well). BUT- we also offered to
immediately send a replacement if he preferred. This would have cost him
nothing (and us plenty since he's in Croatia), and there would be no tax due
since it's a warranty replacement. The only issue would be the cost to
return, and in this case we're picking that up as well.
Kevin Busarow
#

...

I did, they said I can return them for a new pair. That's fine but it
still sucks. Now I have to send them back, pay the shipping and then I
have to wait for a new pair and hope that they will be OK. Suddenly, a
150$ binoculars start to be more and more expensive. Now I know why those
Fujinons cost as much as they do. Cheap stuff sucks big time. Right, I
can return them for a new pair, but it isn't fair. They are 150$. The
shipping (from USA) was 40$. Add 50$ for local taxes. The pair I got
sucks. And now what? Again, pay 40$ shipping. Wait for the next pair to
arrive. The local vultures are probably going to make me pay taxes
again...dammit those binoculars do not cost 150$, they cost 300$ and they
suck!!!

Rrright :) I think I prefer e-mails, they're cheaper :) I already spent
too much :( For nothing I might add.

Now that's comforting :(

I tried to adjust mine, but it can't be done. The collimation is better,
but still not acceptable.

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

They should but they don't. Kevin (from Oberwerk) sent me this link:

#

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

Well it could be the prisms though I've never heard of oval exit
pupils. BAK7 prisms yield rectangular exit pupils. BAK4 prisms
should give circular ones.

Ritesh

I did, I'm waiting for an answer. Thanks!

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:42:39 +0100, Boris ??tromar <b@BLABLA.ad-beskraj.hr>
wrote:

Prisms are shifted. You should contact the seller (#)
for a return. If the collimation is still OK, they will work, but you will not
get the quality of view that you'd get with a pair properly set up. Just
call up the seller at 1-866-244-2460 about returning them for another
pair. I had to do this twice before I got a pair that weren't defective.
Either UPS is really banging these around or there was a bad run of
these that came from the manufacturer in China (where they are made).

If you didn't buy these from the US, you'll have to contact whoever you
did buy them from regarding replacement or repair. They are not too
difficult to repair, I understand, but there should be a warranty for them.

Jerome Bigge
Member, Muskegon Astronomical Society
Author of the "Warlady" & "Wartime" series.
Download at "#"

You should contact Big Binoculars. They have great customer service!
Cheers.
L Brown

Also, when looking from the objective end, I cannot see a complete
circle!

--
Boris Stromar : AD Infinitum member : Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
Astro sketches, video & observing : #