Question about Coleman Powermate Premium Plus 6250W Portable Generator

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Carb bowl How do you remove the carb bowl? Its a gen power 305--10HP subaro engine with no 12mm lug on the botoom of the bowl to open.

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The first thing I want to say is this.

If you have a chance to dump this Robin/Subaru Genset please do so!

I say this because the Manual docs for these R/S engines and/or Gensets are so poorly written in comparison to say Briggs & Stratton or Honda engines that it's like DAY and NIGHT in comparison.

My personal GENERAC 5500 Genset (that uses a B&S 10HP engine) Users Manual is like a Chilton Auto Manual in comparison to the R/S literature. No offense, but it's the truth!

It would be nice to have the WHOLE engine model # for starters, but seeings it's a 10hp Robin/Subaru it no doubt doesn't even have the TORX head style Carb bolts/studs requiring Torx sockets.

If it does by chance - then I'm not sure what size they normally are, as I don't have the exact model #, so I guess you're on your own there and will have to find a set of Torx sockets first.

If the Float Bowl has no Main Jet external adjustment screw assy at the bottom of the Float Bowl, or retainer bolt/nut, then the Float Bowl is screw threaded on in a CW direction.

You may have to use a rubber sleeve (like a 2" cut piece of rubber inner tubing from an old bike tire) and slip it over the bowl to help unscrew it. A smaller rubber band type wrench will work also, but I would hand tighten it so as not to damage anything.

It shouldn't be tightened on that tight to begin with. Be very careful replacing it and the seal gasket (or sometimes an O-ring) making sure the threads are lined up exactly right otherwise you will cross-thread the Bowl or the Carb Body!!

I can't be any more help then that, as that's all I have to work with here.

Let me know if that does it?

Post a reply here please.

Thx and best regards,

Frank

Posted on Sep 04, 2008

  • Frank JR
    Frank JR Sep 10, 2008


    GENSET ALL PROBLEM FIXES - 2 PARTS



    My answer:



    Almost 90-95% of all the Genset problems found by the factory approved Genset Service Centers
    are related to the fact that people don't read the OWNERS MANUAL first, and
    just didn't put OIL in the Genset (or the right amount) - as they are shipped from the MFR
    without OIL in the units to begin with!!!! (See esp #3 and Final Notes below as well)



    And here I thought everybody KNEW THAT!!



    I guess sometimes you just have to ask the most OBVIOUS ??'s first huh (dumb as " it " may sound)?



    If you bought your Genset from other then a Home
    Depot Store, and it's still under warranty - then you will have to
    contact that outlet, and see what they have to say or hopefully can do
    for you.



    Esp all those Gensets that are Made in China and have flooded the USA
    market in the last 10 years or so - no thanks to our representatives in
    WASH DC that's for sure. It's a wonder this country even functions with
    all this "inferior" Made in China JUNK that keeps prematurely failing
    before it's normal time. Sad to say the least!











    Some other obvious things to CHECK for that may be the cause of a NO
    start condition even after adding proper gas & oil to the brand new
    Genset:



    1 - Some Genset gas tanks come with a gas cap "blocking insert" under
    the gas cap that should be removed according to your manual if it
    states this. (Read manual section on "First Time Starting")


    2 - Is the gas tank shutoff valve FULLY OPEN? By the same token
    (even
    if the Genset is or isn't brand new) does it have an in-line fuel
    filter anywhere in the gas line? If not then esp read #5. Always check
    as well the AIR FILTER for proper cleanliness (if oiled type), or clean
    appearance if it's a paper element type. Clean or replace as needed!



    3 - Is the RUN SWITCH set to ON or RUN position (this is purely an
    "Electrical ON-OFF Switch" usually a single-pole single-throw type btw,
    and it can go bad with high usage)? Does it move freely from OFF to ON?
    Is it working properly? Test it using a known good quality DVM
    or OHM meter! It's contacts may have become tarnished just from sitting
    around
    too long? Esp where you have saltwater conditions in the surrounding
    air! This switch actually & electronically is wired in REVERSE so
    that when switched to the ON position the wired contacts are OPEN thus
    letting the Ignition Coil fire for SPARK. When switched to the OFF
    position the wired contacts are now CLOSED thus connecting (or
    switching) the "Control Board" logic voltage signal (usually anywhere
    from +3 to +12 VDC upon start-up) to GROUND - thus cutting the RUN
    voltage to the Ignition Coil fire - as in SHUTDOWN. On some model
    designs there also may be a separate IDLE CONTROL SWITCH and POWER
    REGULATOR BOARD for better POWER LOAD self-regulation depending on
    constant variable loads placed on the Genset as related to the
    work-site demands. If there is NO VOLTAGE OUTPUT but yet good engine
    RPM function - then I would look at this part first and then #8.




    4 - Is the choke being set to the proper position with or without using Ether spray to the Carb?


    5 - Does the Carb have a Yellow or Black wire coming off of the bottom
    of the Float Bowl? This goes to the GAS CUT OFF SOLENOID mounted in the
    Main Jet inside the Float Bowl. NEVER CUT THIS WIRE as some know-nothings have
    suggested here and elsewhere in postings, as there are better ways to test the solenoid without doing
    that! If equipped with one - This anti-dieseling solenoid has to work
    properly or else flooding will occur with the gas shutoff valve OPEN.


    6 - VERY IMPORTANT - Is the Carb Float stuck in the CLOSED position
    not letting gas into the Main Jet? If the Genset is brand brand new and
    truly has never been fired up even once and used, such as like that of
    2-3 years or longer from actual date of purchase, then that Carb Float
    may very well be stuck CLOSED. Worse yet - the Main Jet may be clogged
    with MICRO DEBRIS coming down from the new gas tank - esp if there is
    NO FUEL FILTER present in the fuel line. I've heard of this happening
    more then just a few times myself. You might try
    and TAP CAREFULLY on the bottom or side of the Float Bowl
    with a hard rubber hammer first to try and see if you can dislodge the
    stuck Float inside. If there is that colored WIRE (see #5 again) at the
    bottom of the Float Bowl
    on your model - DO NOT HIT THAT GAS SHUT-OFF SOLENOID WITH THE RUBBER
    HAMMER - as you WILL damage it! If this dislodges the stuck Carb Float
    to the point that the Genset now wants to run to some degree better
    then before, but not fully 100% better and to spec - then you
    definitely still have Carb Float and/or fuel delivery related issues,
    and/or MICRO DEBRIS in the Carb Bowl or Main Jet inlet. If the Genset
    begins to run great - as it should - and continues to do so -
    then your NO FUEL or NO RUN problem is solved! I would still take the
    Carb Bowl off and clean out the whole Assy there just as an added
    precaution anyway as you just never know. When Gensets are truly needed
    in an emergency condition you just don't want to RISK anything!! NEVER
    FORCE ANYTHING EITHER!! It's possibly that you might have to loosen slightly,
    and/or totally remove the
    Float Bowl (usually 2 screws) to see if indeed any gas is getting
    inside to the Float
    at all. If gas comes out readily but still no gas is getting into the
    Main Jet and intake then you purely have a DIRTY CARB issue and nothing
    more!
    If you're not smelling gas through the air filter box then you are FUEL
    STARVED. ALSO - Many a brand new shipped Genset will have some kind of
    NEW gas tank (usually metal gas tanks only) MICRO DEBRIS inside the
    tank itself or even in the rubber gas line (I've heard of this problem before,
    and seen this myself 100's of times with cheaper rubber hoses). That is
    why an added in-line FUEL FILTER (if your Genset has none) is SO
    important!! Usually a common $2-3 item at any auto parts store. Once
    gas is added to the tank all this micro debris is set free to enter
    into the CARB FLOAT BOWL, and that is where Carb problems will start -
    even with a "brand new" never run before Genset!!





  • Frank JR
    Frank JR Sep 10, 2008

    PART 2


    7 - As dumb as this next ? is to ask I have
    to ask anyway -
    Are you
    getting GOOD spark at the spark plug? Again - see #3 AND check the
    engine OIL LEVEL as well. The LOW OIL sensor is actual another ON-OFF
    type switch and if the level Some units ship with the spark
    wire cap disconnected and it may look like it's on the plug, but in
    reality it really isn't fully connected! If you are getting a good
    spark then it's highly unlikely that the Maintenance-free
    Magnetron® electronic ignition would be bad. Fouled
    spark plug - YES - bad Maintenance-free Magnetron® electronic
    ignition - hardly.


    8 - If your Genset is used and said to be ? years old, and it just indeed
    might have some high RUNTIME HOURS on it - it just could very possibly
    be what sounds like to me (and I personally HAVE SEEN this
    happen myself firsthand) that the generator brushes are nearly shot
    - as in almost worn out. They may be getting too too hot - as from
    excessive current draw at point of contact, and thus the generator
    sensing circuitry itself is doing an electrical CUTOUT!!



    An added protective Genset "Control Board" circuit feature - that may
    or may not be built into your Genset - is one that is in the Generator
    Head circuitry itself and
    may indeed be linked to the engine as a type of REV LIMITER or CUTOUT
    on the Maintenance-free Magnetron® electronic ignition.
    Just depends on how sophisticated and expensive your Genset is? Thus
    protects by preventing RUNAWAY and OVER-VOLTAGE conditions rare as that
    may be by today's BETTER designed Gensets (DOES NOT include the cheap
    made in China junk). Again - read your operators or service manual as
    it should have a pretty good
    troubleshooting section in it unless you don't have that anymore or
    never got one if you bought it used to begin with.



    If you unscrew & remove the Generator brushes for servicing yourself, and they are indeed
    below the recommended length (or worse case they are indeed totally
    worn down) then that most likely is your starting or output problem right there. If you are having Output problems as well.



    If you choose to replace the old brushes with new ones yourself - be
    very careful when seating the new ones - as to their insertion and cap
    retainer tightening. Never over-tighten those black plastic-like brush
    retainer screw caps - for if you break one (hard to get immediate
    replacements is why), or fracture one it could cause the Genset to fail
    under LOAD, and that very well could do some severe damage to the
    generator part itself. Take your time doing it, and be patient!!



    It has to be one of the CHECK scenarios listed above, as I've covered every
    possible cause short of a broken wire somewhere - which in that case
    you will have to schematic trace and DVM or Ohm-meter out wire to wire contacts.
    This being the least likely scenario from experience.



    If you indeed find the Float Bowl assy to be the cause of dirt
    contamination or varnish build-up clogging the Carb, and you need a
    walk-through of taking it apart, cleaning it out, and then
    re-assembling it again - as well as re-adjusting the fuel mixture Adjustment Screws - just give me a shout here, and I'll walk you through it step by step.



    Final Note: For all older used Gensets - Are you starting and running
    the Gennie for at least 10 mins every month (30 days) as required by
    most all Mfrs? Are you also keeping & running a good FUEL
    PRESERVATIVE/STABILIZER (as required) in each tank of gas no matter how
    often you run it? BEFORE you totally shutdown your Genset after running
    it (even those short 10 required mins every month) - are you first
    shutting off the gas supply completely, and then running the Genset out
    DRY from as much gas from the Carb Bowl and gas line as you can? Even
    though some "so-called" experts tell you not to do this - if you are
    NOT going to be running the Genset every 30 days or plan to store it
    for more then say 6 months at a time - THEN DO IT RELIGIOUSLY -
    otherwise you will VARNISH the Carb with contaminated GUNK buildup from
    STALE GAS! Happens all the time! Changing the DIRTY OIL frequently and
    adding the proper level of 10-30 (recommended), or 10-40 oil is VERY
    important as well. Your engine will use OIL esp if it's older with
    "higher run hours" on it. Keeping a good Maintenance Log makes GOOD
    SENSE as well. You
    should be doing all of these things as well - if you want a smooth
    running Genset when that real emergency does come up, and that Genset
    absolutely has to work 100%!






    That's about all there is unless you got a truly Defective Genset right from the start. Next stop - Home Depot!






    Best regards to all with the same problems, and hope I helped you out 100% - all political humor/truth aside.



    Please post me a reply as to finding this solution being the best
    resolve to your Genset problem there by following my recommendations
    above. Also please rate my troubleshooting fix as well.



    Keep me posted and I'll follow up as well.



    Best regards,



    Frank






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< < READ CLOSELY > >
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Please rate this solution. Thanks!

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