Question about 2006 Honda Pantheon 150

1 Answer

Good afternoon. I have a hona FES 125 ccm 2 stroke year 1999 It is starting very well but after a few minutes ride, when the engine gets to a certain heat, the engine will start working due to missing spark produced by the spark plug. After a colling down period of aobut 10 to 15 mnutes, the engine will restart until it will stop again due a warmth which prevents fom producig the spark. I had changed the ignition coil, but the problem does persist. Where do I have to search for the problem, is it the pick-up coil, is it the stator generator, a problem with the CDI or a contact problem with the wires. I'll most appreciate any idea how I can find out the problem and have it fixed.

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  • 4 more comments 
  • jpc7148 May 20, 2011

    Hello over there I have received your
    solution proposal,








    Now first of all: I wish to correct,
    that my scooter bike is a honda pantheon 125 ccm 2 stroke engine year 1999 (and
    not a honda pantheon 150ccm year 2006, these are 4 stroke
    engines)








    I have appreciated the solution
    proposal from your expert "azraelsrl"! However, it does not help me much
    further, could he be something bit more precise what connections I should check
    and crimp, because there are so many, and I believe there only some specific
    connections to be checked which could provoke the shutdown of the
    engine.








    Second, what does he understand in
    moving the CDI in a better position? Is this meant to remove it form it original
    place of fixation as per manufacturer and what radiator is he talking about. I
    mean, the engine is walter cooled and the water level is checked. so actually
    the radiater will cool the water when it is directed to pass through the
    radiator for down cooling before being passed again through the cooling hoses of
    the engine.








    I have to add, that the scooter might
    work and does work, without problems, e.g. in the morning,and this well for a
    distance of 25 miles, when air ambient temperatur is cooler than during day and
    late afternoon when then it will most likely shut down and I shall have to wait
    for it to cool down.








    thank you very much for answering all
    these Q to me, in order to better define I have added here below a drawing of
    the wire harness, could he please specifiy what connections to check by adding
    the numbering used on the drawing??




    image



    image

    image

    Hello over there I have received your solution proposal,




    Now first of all: I wish to correct, that my scooter bike is a honda pantheon 125 ccm 2 stroke engine year 1999 (and not a honda pantheon 150ccm year 2006, these are 4 stroke engines)




    I have appreciated the solution proposal from your expert "azraelsrl"! However, it does not help me much further, could he be something bit more precise what connections I should check and crimp, because there are so many, and I believe there only some specific connections to be checked which could provoke the shutdown of the engine.




    Second, what does he understand in moving the CDI in a better position? Is this meant to remove it form it original place of fixation as per manufacturer and what radiator is he talking about. I mean, the engine is walter cooled and the water level is checked. so actually the radiater will cool the water when it is directed to pass through the radiator for down cooling before being passed again through the cooling hoses of the engine.




    I have to add, that the scooter might work and does work, without problems, e.g. in the morning,and this well for a distance of 25 miles, when air ambient temperatur is cooler than during day and late afternoon when then it will most likely shut down and I shall have to wait for it to cool down.




    thank you very much for answering all these Q to me, in order to better define I have added here below a drawing of the wire harness, could he please specifiy what connections to check by adding the numbering used on the drawing??


    image


    image

    image

  • jpc7148 May 20, 2011

    Hello over there I have received your
    solution proposal,








    Now first of all: I wish to correct,
    that my scooter bike is a honda pantheon 125 ccm 2 stroke engine year 1999 (and
    not a honda pantheon 150ccm year 2006, these are 4 stroke
    engines)








    I have appreciated the solution
    proposal from your expert "azraelsrl"! However, it does not help me much
    further, could he be something bit more precise what connections I should check
    and crimp, because there are so many, and I believe there only some specific
    connections to be checked which could provoke the shutdown of the
    engine.








    Second, what does he understand in
    moving the CDI in a better position? Is this meant to remove it form it original
    place of fixation as per manufacturer and what radiator is he talking about. I
    mean, the engine is walter cooled and the water level is checked. so actually
    the radiater will cool the water when it is directed to pass through the
    radiator for down cooling before being passed again through the cooling hoses of
    the engine.








    I have to add, that the scooter might
    work and does work, without problems, e.g. in the morning,and this well for a
    distance of 25 miles, when air ambient temperatur is cooler than during day and
    late afternoon when then it will most likely shut down and I shall have to wait
    for it to cool down.








    thank you very much for answering all
    these Q to me, in order to better define I have added here below a drawing of
    the wire harness, could he please specifiy what connections to check by adding
    the numbering used on the drawing??




    image



    image

    image

    Hello over there I have received your solution proposal,




    Now first of all: I wish to correct, that my scooter bike is a honda pantheon 125 ccm 2 stroke engine year 1999 (and not a honda pantheon 150ccm year 2006, these are 4 stroke engines)




    I have appreciated the solution proposal from your expert "azraelsrl"! However, it does not help me much further, could he be something bit more precise what connections I should check and crimp, because there are so many, and I believe there only some specific connections to be checked which could provoke the shutdown of the engine.




    Second, what does he understand in moving the CDI in a better position? Is this meant to remove it form it original place of fixation as per manufacturer and what radiator is he talking about. I mean, the engine is walter cooled and the water level is checked. so actually the radiater will cool the water when it is directed to pass through the radiator for down cooling before being passed again through the cooling hoses of the engine.




    I have to add, that the scooter might work and does work, without problems, e.g. in the morning,and this well for a distance of 25 miles, when air ambient temperatur is cooler than during day and late afternoon when then it will most likely shut down and I shall have to wait for it to cool down.




    thank you very much for answering all these Q to me, in order to better define I have added here below a drawing of the wire harness, could he please specifiy what connections to check by adding the numbering used on the drawing??


    image


    image

    image

  • jpc7148 May 20, 2011

    Hello ,



    eventually, you are not able to receive the pics I Have added to my comment.



    if you could give me an e-mail address where to send them to without having to use this narrow space comment box, I shall appreciate



    thanks



    jpc7148

    Jean-Pierre Conrad

    E-mail: jpc@wambo.ch

  • jpc7148 May 20, 2011

    Hi azraelsrl,



    Now, with the clear explanation it has become clear to me too. thanks a lot!



    I do not believe it it the carurettor, because, whenvever I had the probelm, I took out the spark, put the cap on it and had it laid down on the cylinder, then I was applying the start know to start crancking the engine. If there was any current comming through, the spark would have to show the ignition light, but instead it remainedwihtout action. So I left it on the cylinder and i was from time to time re-crancking the engine. I did so until the spark was producing again the spark light. then I was putting back in place the spark plug into the cylinder, and what a wonder, the engire begun to work again until....

    so I didthis a few times to be sure, that the problem was for sure an electrical problem and not one linked to fuel supply.



    Your full explanation is now totally clear to me and I shall proceed the way proposed by you.

    Over here in Europe, the reason why Honda offers 125 ccm and 150 ccm of same models is due to a legal matter. The only thing which changes between the pantheon 125 and 150, and please have me corrected, for a same year model is nothing else but the cylinder volume, all the rest remains the same. the legal matter is, that in Italy, where high numbers of honda are sold, you cannot enter the motorway or freeway with scooter and motor bikes which have a cylinder volume being less than 150.

    ccm.



    Therefore spare parts are identical and thereofre all the electric components will be interchangeable.

    Get me corrected if I am wrong with this statement.



    I shall start to look at the CDI late afternoon when I am coming home from work. I shall let u know in any case.



    so fare thank you very much



    jpc


  • jpc7148 May 20, 2011

    Hi,

    I am back from "surgery". I took of the CDI from its plug and there was absolutely no sign of any damage, dirt or oxydation on the pins or on the plug. I cleaned it with an electro cleaning spray "alkohol based" which dilutes very quicky in the air. The wires getting out from the CDI plug do not show any damage and no dirt could through to the contacts since there is a rubber seal on each wire. From outside, the CDI looks like new, obiously, I cannot look inside. There is no fan providing cool air to this CDI which is fixed on the outside ot the battery carrying case.

    Now before I do manage to have a new CDI, can we exclude any other bad contatct in the wire harness which provoques this?

    Can we exclude a damage on the pick up coil (star-stator generator), whichs wirings could heat and extend and therefore provoque a short circuit due to contacts between them or some other damage to the pick up coil unabling ito send any signal for sparking?

    By the way he egine did start immediately, even after 2 weeks stand still.



    thanks a lot again for reverting



    jpc

  • jpc7148 May 21, 2011

    Well the spark plug is a new one and the ignition coil has already been changed as well.
    Is it possible that a contact problem or heat problem can occur hat the key assembly?

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  • Honda Master
  • 11,800 Answers

Since it's a heat related problem it's either in one of the contacts - the metal from them expands and breaks the contact - or in the CDI - the heating disrupts the normal functioning of the power transistor in the charger and the capacitor no longer charges to the full so the spark goes too weak to keep lighting the mixture in the cylinder..
Try to move the CDI in a better position and/ or install a bigger radiator on it. Then check and crimp a little more all the electrical connectors.

Posted on May 17, 2011

  • 2 more comments 
  • Azrael SRL May 20, 2011

    Use this site http://imageshack.us/ and then post the links. I was referring to the connectors on the wires that plug in the CDI, crimp them a little. And moving the CDI implies detaching from where it is now and reattaching it to the frame in a better position, with a better air flow. The CDI has a small finned radiator on it - or in the 150 it has. Sometimes this radiator gets clogged with dirt or detaches from the unit it's supposed to cool - clean it or replace it with a bigger one (don't forget the thermal paste). But, since it's the 125 motor, you should also check the carburetor, in a 2-stroke motor its choke is way more sensible and might get accidentally activated.

  • Azrael SRL May 20, 2011

    Yes, you are correct - the only essential difference is the size of the engine so the CDI should be identical. Since this is clearly an electrical /wire contact problem the troubleshooting procedure is the same: starting with the key contact you take one wire connector out, you clean it with some emery paper, crimp it a little sot it grips the metal tab better and move to the next one. If that doesn't fixes it then the CDI is faulty, rearrange or replace it.

  • Azrael SRL May 20, 2011

    Unfortunately because this is a contact problem you cannot rule anything out. But the way it occurs makes it easier to find: when the fail occurs just start checking for the presence of the voltage, starting with the contact key and all the way up to the sparkplug - it might be even a faulty sparkplug, one in which the ceramic insulation is cracked.

  • Azrael SRL May 21, 2011

    Yes, it's totally possible.

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