No electrical activity at all now after a failed attempt to...
...jump the leads (with a screwdriver like I had done before) on the starter solenoid. I think the battery cables must have touched the wires to the starter. Did I short out the starter? If so, do I need to replace it? What is the likelihood of other electrical wiring damage?
The bike was running beautifully. Would love to get it up again soon. Please help.
Re: No electrical activity at all now after a failed...
You shorted out the bike......check your battery voltage. you jumped the leads for what? It should work after you replace blown fuses, if any. If it worked before you did that. there is probably an underlying problem in the electrical system....starter soleniod...or other....ive shorted only to have everything turn out fine. u live and u learn.
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The most conclusive way to test your starter is to remove it from the vehicle and simply test functionality with a 12V battery. Typically there are three points on the starter case were wires are attached you can use a screwdriver with the starter on the vehicle to jump the points and listen for the starter to activate, however this is inclusive because you cannot see what is happening. With the starter off the vehicle you can use your cars battery to test the starter(you will need test leads or jumper cables and a screwdriver). Attach the lead from the negative battery post to anywhere on the starters case to ground the circuit. Now attach the positive lead to large positive wiring point on the starter, now it is supplied with power. When you turn you ignition a second 12V signal is ent to the starter to activate it, to simulate this TOUCH an additional posative lead to the activtion post on the starter, if you do not have leads use a screwdriver to bridge the gap. Your starter solenoid should come out and the starter should spin forcefully, if it does not function or spins weakly replace it. For one on one help, videos, and anything else you could need to solve your problem you can contact me through my webpage www.autoabsolute.ca Home
when trouble shooting a problem with an electric started engine ie; a suspected faulty starter,solenoid,ignition switch etc. it is common to 'jump' the solenoid, this is done by connecting the two large wires at the solenoid , on most vehicles the solenoid is connected directly to the starter (its the smaller cylinder) however it is very common for ford to mount them on a inner fender, you can simply follow your positive wire coming out of the starter, it will lead first to the solenoid then finally to the positive battery terminal, the solenoind consist of three wires, two large ones and one much smaller, one of the large wires will lead to the positive battery terminal, the other large wire, directly into the starter , the small wire is the power supply to the solenoid (operated by your ignition switch) which is what engages to connect the two larger wires, if you jump the two large wires *(i commonly use a wrench or two screwdrivers whatever it takes , be carefull of the sparks, or loom yourself a switched wire for more safety)* the engine should turn over! it will not start unless you turn on the ignition... this is a simple way to 'bypass' the solenoid for trouble shooting purposes, this example i just used a week ago and determined that i will have to remove the starter for a closer inspection, as it was just replaced two weeks prior! in this case the starter was shot. more on that some other time.
1. Need a new battery
2. starter solenoid is defective
3. starter needs rebuilding...
Does Solenoid click when trying the electric starter? CAREFULLY jump the two terminals on the solenoid (SPARKS WILL FLY).. IF the engine turns over or starts, THE SOLENOID IS BAD. just replace it.
If it clicks when you are trying to start it electrically, use a multimeter (voltmeter) to see if you are getting 12v to the starter connection while you are trying to electrically start it. (+) lead on starter bolt and (-) to a motor mount bolt. If you get 12v+, starter needs rebuilding!
First do a voltage reading on the battery and note what it is.
Using a voltmeter attach the red meter lead to the most positive part of the circuit, which would be the positive post of the battery and attach the black meter lead to the final destination or component in the circuit (if testing a starter circuit this would be the terminal on the starter, not the solenoid). THEN try to activate the starter and observe the meter reading. The meter will read the voltage dropped or the difference in potential between the source and the destination. An ideal circuit voltage drop reading would be 1 volt or less. If there is an open in the circuit (i.e. NO electricity is reaching the terminal) the voltmeter should read source voltage volts which means all the voltage was dropped. A normal good starter circuit should not show more than a one volt drop. If more than 1 volt is dropped there is a problem somewhere in the circuitry before the starter terminal. In this case leaving the red voltmeter lead on the battery positive post, move the negative voltmeter lead to the solenoid stud where the battery cable attaches and activate the starter circuit again. If the voltage reading is now 1 volt or less clean, repair, tighten the starter solenoid to starter terminal stud connections and test again and if no change clean/repair the internal solenoid contacts or replace the solenoid with a new/good one. If there is still a voltage drop greater than 1 volt move the negative voltmeter lead from the solenoid terminal stud to the actual battery cable terminal end at the solenoid terminal stud and again activate the starter circuit. If there is a 1 volt or less reading the battery cable terminal end and/or solenoid terminal stud and/or the connection between the two is faulty, loose, corroded or etc. Clean and tighten and retest. If there is still more than a 1 volt reading on the voltmeter the problem is a loose or corroded or otherwise bad connection between the battery cable terminal end and the battery positive post or the battery cable itself is bad. Clean and tighten the battery cable terminal and battery positive post and test again. If there is still more than a one volt reading on the voltmeter the battery cable is bad and will need to be replaced.
If there is less than a 1 volt reading when the test is done at the starter terminal the circuit up to that point is good so the next step will be to do a negative or ground circuit voltage drop test by connecting the negative or black voltmeter lead to the most negative point which is normally the negative battery post (or the closest thing thereto if, like some Sportsters, the battery post is hard or impossible to get to) and then connect the positive or red voltmeter lead to the starter mounting studs. Then activate the starter circuit again and if the voltage reading is greater than 1 volt clean the battery negative cable ends and battery post and negative cable to motorcycle frame or other grounding point, tighten same and similarly the starter mounting points and studs because there is a problem with the starter ground (could be looseness, corrosion, powder coat/paint problems etc). If the voltage reading is 1 volt or less than 1 volt in this test the ground circuit is okay and it will be necessary to perform a starter current draw test on the vehicle (and/or a starter current free draw test on the bench). If the results are within the specifications for the starter in these tests remove the spark plugs, raise the rear wheel so it can spin unimpeded, put the transmission in 5th gear and rotate the rear wheel to check for engine, transmission, primary and/or crankshaft resistance/bind. If the results are not within the amperage specifications for the particular starter replace or repair the starter motor to bring within the system amperage specifications.
Assuming that the car is using a negative earth. (Negative battery terminal earths to the body/chassis)
The starter solenoid may have some bad connections. If this vehicle has a separate starter solenoid on the rear firewall under the bonnet, try bridging the big terminals with a jumper lead (red) and see if the solenoid/starter works. Some of them even had a press button between the main terminals. Try pressing the button if it has one.
If none of the above works, take the jumper wire directly to the starter motor from the batter possitive. If this causes the starter to spin, you clearly have a bad solenoid.....replace it.
NB! Be careful not to short out the jump lead against the engine or any other earth or you will see lots of sparks etc. You will not get a shock from this activity!
Possibly better to clip the jump lead to the starter main connector first and then touch the other end to the battery positive.
(I am assuming that the batter is charged up and properly connected.)
Also check the earth wire from engine to chassis. You can make do by using the other (Black) jump lead from the engine block to the battery negative.
Try jumping it, sounds like the battery can be dead. But there is a solenoid on the firewall I believe the left side inner fender (in the engine compartment) you can turn the ignition on and jump the two leads with a screwdriver and see if the motor turns over. Remember this is a huge motor with high compression and the glow plugs have to fire to start. Takes a lot of juice to get it going (thats why it has 2 batteries). Make sure you have charged batteries. If not charge/jump the truck. The starter can only be tested off the truck, a solenoid if bad only cost a few bucks ($20-$30) but they don't fail too often
Won't crank? What about relays? Can you safely jump across back of starter with screwdriver? (positive to positive jump) Starter should crank while you do this (don't let screwdriver touch positive and negative) like body of starter . Electrical short can burn you or blind you. Don't attempt if unsure.
If starter will crank by jumping then at least you know what you are looking for.
I think your right that the humming is likely to be the fuel pump and
so thats OK and should happen without the key being turned to the Start
position. If the humming only happens when you turn the key to the
start position rather than just when you turn the key to the point
where the electrics come alive, then that would be a new symptom that
would be interesting to hear.
I understand how frustrating this can be. Just a couple of concerns
here. I think if your starter truely starts your car then there is not
likely anything wrong with the starter motor itself. However that
would not rule out a solenoid that is being problematic, and only
I have had bad batteries classified as good by shops that check batteries, so don't assume that the battery is not the problem.
If we assume the battery and the starter are good including the
solenoid then I would say you have to check all the connections on the
wiring - i.e. take the terminal connections off the battery and clean
then thouroughly - while the batter is disconnected take it out and
trace the cable links to the Chassis earth connection and the positive
connection down to the starter - take the cables off and clean the
connections to the car, body and to the starter motor. Also clean the
connection that goes to the Solenoid post on the Starter motor taht
comes from the ignition switch ( the smaller connection on the starter)
. Also check the earth strap between the engine block and the car body
that allows the starter circuit to be completed. It could be a poor
connection in any of these places is setting up a high resistance that
is creating a problem for the starter circuit if the starter motor is
physically not turning over.
Stick the battery back in - make sure all the connections are cleaned lightly greased and tightened and try to start it.
If it wont go - try getting a friend to help you put jumper leads
across your battery from their car and trying to start your car. Make
sure their car is running when you try to start your car. If it works
every time 1st time with the jumper leads then I would have to suggest the battery on your car is bad - despite what the test guys say.
If it still plays up with the jumper leads after cleaning all the cables i would point to the Soleniod on the starter motor and suggest that the solenoid is defective.
If you want to check the starter directly - its a bit dangerous so you have to be really careful and have a very good friend who is willing to let you try this with his car battery and that would be while you get under the raised up car which is firmly choked and in neutral, with the starter motor in place connect the negative to the earth strap connector on the engine block, and then while the friend stands ready with the disconnected Positive jump lead and holding the negative jump lead in place on his battery, you climb under the your raised up car with the positive jump lead and a screw drive and attach the positive jump lead directly to the positive terminal of your starter motor while bridging between the positive terminal and the solenoid terminal with something like a screw driver or another think wire. (you have to be really careful doing this cause there are so many things to accidentally touch with the positive cable and cause arching ) but once your all in place your friend can attach the other end fo the positive jump lead to his battery and that way you have taken out all the circuitry and are effectively testing your starter while in place on your car and while under load. As long as your jump leads are good and you are in good contact with the starter connections and the soleniod contacts, if the starter doesn't turn the engine over you have something up with the starter. As you have taken every thing else out of the loop - i.e. the wiring and your battery.
If the starter does turn the engine over this way it says the starter is good and there are problems with the wiring or your battery.
Sorry for the long reply but thats all I can think of to try and work out where the problem may be. Good luck.