Question about 2004 Pontiac Montana

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I have a 2004 montana that would not crank

I replaced Starter, theft module in ignition, and at one time the PCM fuse in the inside fuse box would continuosly blow. I went thru the key on engine off reprogramming 3 times and now it will crank but the fuel pump will not turn on. any suggestions. I have replaced the relay with 3 different one. I check continuity from PCM to Relay and it is there.

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  • krehm Jan 02, 2009

    1999 Montana with the same problem.
    I've replaced both crankshaft position sensors.
    I have continuity between pcm and fuel pump relay.
    Fuel pump turns on with jumper wire at the relay.
    Have you fixed your vehicle? What was the problem?


  • Anonymous Mar 23, 2014

    also replaced the crank case sensor and still the fuel pump does not come on when i turn the ignition on

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I cannot find the inside fuse box to fix a blown fuse for my power outlet up front

Posted on Nov 23, 2008

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2002 chevy trailblazer and it will not crank or start and the key has gotten stuck in the ignition. I also got a jumpstart and it still didn't start. What is wrong, Please?


Could be a number of thing's , can you do automotive electrical testing ? Do you know if starting is PCM / ECM controlled or BCM controlled ? Do you know what these are ? BCM - body control module , PCM/ECM - engine computer !
Moving the ignition switch to the START position sends a 12-volt signal to the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM) Crank Request circuit. The ECM/PCM verifies that the transmission is in the PARK or NEUTRAL position. With the transmission in Park, voltage flows through the Park/Neutral position switch and feeds the starter relay coil. The PCM then grounds the control circuit of the starter relay. When the starter relay is energized it allows battery positive voltage to the starter solenoid S terminal. On some vehicles the starter will continue to crank the engine with the key released until it starts or the crank command has timed out to prevent excessive heat build up in the starter circuitry or the ECM/PCM receives an engine run flag.
Circuit Description (BCM Controlled)
Moving the ignition to the START position signals the body control module (BCM) that engine crank has been requested. The BCM verifies that theft is not active and sends a serial data message to the powertrain control module (PCM) requesting engine start. The BCM also energizes the RUN/CRANK RELAY. When the RUN/CRANK RELAY switch side closes, and the vehicle is in Park or Neutral or with the clutch is fully depressed, if equipped, supplies voltage to the starter relay coil. The PCM verifies the transmission is in Park or Neutral and the clutch is fully depressed, if equipped. The PCM will then ground the control circuit of the starter relay, closing the switch supplying voltage to the starter solenoid. On some vehicles the starter will continue to crank the engine with the key released until it starts of the crank command has timed out to prevent excessive heat build up in the starter circuitry or the PCM receives an engine run flag.
Do you know what a park neutral safety switch is ? What do you mean key stuck in ignition ? Can't turn the key to off position , or you can an the key will not come out ?
Your best bet , take it to a qualified repair shop .

Apr 04, 2017 | 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer

1 Answer

O5 Colorado got the ecm code when I shut off the truck and now it won't turn over


What ECM code ? What is everything else that is working ? Headlamps , inside lighting , radio etc... When you turn the key on do the instrument cluster warning lights come on then off a few seconds later ? Anti-theft (security light ) On ? Flashing ? Do you know what all is involved ,or happens when you turn the key to start ?
Circuit Description (ECM/PCM Controlled)
Moving the ignition switch to the START position sends a 12-volt signal to the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM) Crank Request circuit. The ECM/PCM verifies that the transmission is in the PARK or NEUTRAL position. With the transmission in Park, voltage flows through the Park/Neutral position switch and feeds the starter relay coil. The PCM then grounds the control circuit of the starter relay. When the starter relay is energized it allows battery positive voltage to the starter solenoid S terminal. On some vehicles the starter will continue to crank the engine with the key released until it starts or the crank command has timed out to prevent excessive heat build up in the starter circuitry or the ECM/PCM receives an engine run flag.
Circuit Description (BCM Controlled)
Moving the ignition to the START position signals the body control module (BCM) that engine crank has been requested. The BCM verifies that theft is not active and sends a serial data message to the powertrain control module (PCM) requesting engine start. The BCM also energizes the RUN/CRANK RELAY. When the RUN/CRANK RELAY switch side closes, and the vehicle is in Park or Neutral or with the clutch is fully depressed, if equipped, supplies voltage to the starter relay coil. The PCM verifies the transmission is in Park or Neutral and the clutch is fully depressed, if equipped. The PCM will then ground the control circuit of the starter relay, closing the switch supplying voltage to the starter solenoid. On some vehicles the starter will continue to crank the engine with the key released until it starts of the crank command has timed out to prevent excessive heat build up in the starter circuitry or the PCM receives an engine run flag.


Verify that no starter relay, immobilizer, or automatic transmission DTCs are set that would cause the PCM to disable starting.
? If the specified DTCs are set, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle .
Ignition ON, observe the scan tool PCM Ignition 1 Signal parameter with a scan tool. The reading should be greater than 10.0 Volts.
? If less than the specified value, test the ETC, PCM 1, and PCM B fuses, the RUN/CRNK relay, and the PCM ignition voltage circuits for an open/high resistance. If the circuits test normal, replace the PCM.
Ignition OFF, remove the START relay.
Verify that a test lamp illuminates between the B+ circuit terminal 30 and ground.
? If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the START fuse and the B+ circuit for an open/high resistance.
Ignition ON, transmission in Park or clutch pedal pressed, verify that a test lamp illuminates between the PNP/clutch start switch signal circuit terminal 86 and ground.
? If the test lamp does not illuminate, test the IGN fuse, RUN/CRANK relay, PNP/clutch switch ignition voltage circuit, and the signal circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuits test normal, test or replace the PNP switch or the clutch start switch.
Connect a test lamp between the park/neutral signal circuit terminal 86 and the relay coil control circuit terminal 85.
Ignition ON, transmission in Park, or clutch pedal pressed, turn the ignition switch between the START and RUN positions. The test lamp should turn ON and OFF when changing between the commanded states.
? If the test lamp is always ON, test the relay control circuit for a short to ground. If the circuit tests normal, replace the PCM.
? If the test lamp is always OFF, test the relay control circuit for a short to voltage or an open/high resistance. Test the PNP/clutch start switch signal circuit for an open/high resistance. If the circuits test normal, replace the PCM.
Install the START relay.
Connect a test lamp between the starter solenoid terminal and ground.

Mar 12, 2017 | Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

Buick century 3.1 2000 security light staying on car wont crank what can that be


It's the anti-theft system . (SECURITY ) Keeps vehicle from being stolen !
Important: If the wrong ignition key is used in an attempt to start the vehicle, a Data Trouble Code (DTC) will be set and the Body Control Module (BCM) will not send a fuel enable or starter enable message to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) for three minutes even if the correct ignition is used.
The Pass-Key II?® Theft Deterrent system prevents vehicle theft by disabling the starter motor and fuel system. If the Body Control Module (BCM) dose not identify the use of the correct ignition key to start the vehicle, the (BCM) will communicate a message to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) which will disable the crank relay and fuel delivery to the engine.
When the (BCM) identifies the use of the correct ignition key (resistor pellet) to start the vehicle, the (BCM) will send a fuel enable and starter enable message to the (PCM) which will allow the vehicle to start.
Your best bet would be have it towed to a qualified repair shop !

Aug 29, 2016 | 2001 Buick Century

1 Answer

What is the exact location of the antitheft fuse box?


Explain anti-theft fuse box ! what do you think this is ? There is an anti-theft system on your vehicle , called PATS - passive anti theft system .Sorry , but there is not anti-theft fuse box .
Anti-Theft -Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) The passive anti-theft system (PATS) contains the following components:
  • theft indicator
  • encoded ignition key
  • PATS transceiver module
  • powertrain control module (PCM)
  • standard corporate protocol (SCP) communication network

Mar 20, 2016 | 2004 Ford Ranger

1 Answer

My 99 olds intrigue just won't turn over like my battery or something dead


How is the battery ? Do the headlamps shine bright ? Did you check the crank relay an the crank fuse 40amp ? one of the big one's ,maxi fuse . Under hood fuse / relay box . Check to see if voltage is coming through the transaxle range switch.

When the ignition switch is on, battery voltage is applied to one side of the crank relay in the underhood accessory wiring junction block through circuit 3, the PCM-BCM Fuse in the fuse block, and circuit 439. When the ignition switch is turned to START, voltage is fed to the powertrain control module connector C2 terminal 23 through circuit 5, the CRANK SIGNAL Fuse in the fuse block, and circuit 806 through the underhood accessory wiring junction block. Power is always provided from the CRANK MaxiFuse in the underhood accessory wiring junction block to the common side of the crank relay contacts. When the powertrain control module sees the crank signal and determines that conditions are OK for a crank, it supplies ground through circuit 625 to the crank relay. The crank relay now has both power and ground to the relay coil, causing the relay to pull in. When this happens, and the gear selector is in either PARK or NEUTRAL, the power at the relay common contact is passed through circuit 1737, the transaxle range switch and circuit 6 to the S terminal on the starter solenoid.
Passlock Theft Deterrent System
This vehicle is equipped with the Passlock theft deterrent system. This system contains a Passlock sensor. The Passlock sensor is part of the ignition lock cylinder assembly. The Body Control Module (BCM) interfaces with the Passlock sensor.
When turning the ignition switch to the START position with the proper key, the Passlock sensor generates an analog voltage signal, which is sent to the BCM. This analog voltage signal is of a specific value to the vehicle, and varies from vehicle to vehicle. When attempting to start the engine, the BCM compares a preset stored analog voltage value with the signal coming from the sensor. Because both values match, the BCM sends a fuel enable password via the Class II Serial Data Line to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). As a result, the PCM enables the crank relay, and allows fuel delivery to the engine.
When attempting to start the engine by means other than using the proper key in the ignition switch, the Passlock sensor sends a analog voltage signal of a different value. The BCM compares the preset stored analog voltage value with the signal coming from the sensor. Because both values do not match, the BCM sends a fuel disable password via the Class II Serial Data Line to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). As a result, the PCM disables the crank relay, and does not allow fuel delivery to the engine.
For more information regarding the Passlock theft deterrent system, refer to Theft Deterrent in Body and Accessories
This starting system is computer controlled , if you are not familiar with this I suggest you take a GM dealership or an ASE certified repair shop .

Nov 28, 2015 | Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

Put a new coil pack on crancked it over wouldnt start now it wont crank at all batt. is good and so is starter and fuses


Do you have a flashing red light in the center of the top of the dash when trying to crank it ? Check starter relay in the in under hood fuse / relay box ! The PCM - powertrain control module controls it by supplying a ground to the control side ! Where the relay plugs into the fuse box are four sockets , two should have battery voltage , one should show continuity with ohm meter an one should show open or OL on ohm meter this is from the PCM . when you crank the vehicle over, if no problems with anti-theft system the PCM supply's a ground an the engine cranks over !

Apr 14, 2015 | 2003 Ford Windstar

1 Answer

I need to get passed the anti theft reset to get my 2000 cad.devlle.going, just bought it, I need help to locate fuse boxes, would like to trade somebody for a sharp running truck or car straight across,...


One is under the hood in the engine compartment an Rear Fuse Block
Left rear of the passenger compartment, under the rear seat ! There are a couple of fuse's , but they power up the ignition an the PCM ,so you can't pull those ! Beside that if the PCM does not get a fuel enable signal from the anti-theft module the vehicle won't start . You can't just disable thing's on this vehicle ! If you have security light on steady or flashing you need to take it to someone who has a diagnostic scan tool that can check DTC'S - diagnostic trouble codes ! A code reader can not access these type codes !
Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD)Circuit Description
(VTD) Theft Deterrent System Components
Ignition Key (Transponder) The ignition key for the (VTD) theft deterrent system is a typical ignition key with a transponder pellet located in the plastic end of the key. The ignition key transponder value is used to determine if a valid ignition key is being used to start the vehicle, there are approximately three trillion different transponder values available. This vehicle has two types of ignition keys.
?€¢
Master key (black plastic end) which can start the vehicle and lock/unlock all door locks, all storage compartments and the rear compartment lid lock.


?€¢
Valet key (gray plastic end) which can start the vehicle and unlock/lock all doors, but can not unlock/lock the storage compartments, or rear compartment lid lock.

Important: The transponder values are not readable and can not be serviced separately.
Theft Deterrent Module The theft deterrent module contains the software for controlling the VTD System. The theft deterrent module uses the following inputs and outputs to control the VTD system.
Inputs ?€¢
Battery voltage from the underhood fuse block PCM/BATT fuse, circuit 240 (ORN).


?€¢
Ignition start voltage from the ignition switch, circuit 1390 (WHT).


?€¢
Ground, circuit 450 (BLK).
Outputs Password exchange with the PCM (fuel enable), class 2 message circuit 1807 (PPL).
Powertrain Control Module (PCM) The PCM verifies that the passwords received from the theft deterrent module via the class 2 serial data line are valid. If a password is invalid the PCM disables the fuel delivery system. If the password is valid the PCM enables the fuel delivery system.
Starter Relay The starter relay is controlled by the PCM module via class 2 serial data (CKT 1807 PPL). If the theft deterrent module measures the correct transponder value, the PCM module switches the starter enable control (CKT 447 YEL) to ground. The relay is energized if the ignition switch is in the START position and the gear selector is in the PARK or NEUTRAL positions.

Mar 24, 2015 | Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

2006 Cobalt ss will not start


The key is chiped , does it have a padlock an car symbol light on the instrument cluster when you turn the key on ? Do the headlamps work ? shine bright ? Do you have a volt meter ? Check battery voltage . Go to http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html free wiring diagrams . Enter vehicle info. year , make , model an engine size . Under system click on electrical distribution , under subsystem click on power distribution . Check power at the crank relay , plus you need to know what happens when you turn that key to start . Computers involved .Do you know about relays ?

Moving the ignition switch to the START position signals the body control module (BCM) through discrete inputs from the ignition transducer that engine crank has been requested. The BCM verifies that theft is not active and sends a serial data message to the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM) requesting engine start. The ECM/PCM receives a 12-volt signal from the park/neutral position (PNP) switch or clutch pedal start switch notifying that it is safe to start the engine. There is a splice on this circuit in the fuse block-underhood that supplies power for the starter relay coil. The starter relay coil control circuit is then grounded by the ECM/PCM closing the switch in the starter relay suppling 12 volts to the S-trminal of the starter. Ground is supplied through the engine block.
A scan tool of professional type would be a good tool to have to diagnose this .

The vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system functions are provided by the theft deterrent module (TDM). When an ignition key is inserted into the ignition lock cylinder and the ignition is switched ON, the transponder embedded in the head of the key is energized by the exciter coils surrounding the ignition lock cylinder. The energized transponder transmits a signal that contains its unique value, which is received by the TDM. The TDM then compares this value to a value stored in memory. This is the learned key code. If the value is correct, the TDM sends a random generated number to the transponder. This is called a challenge. Both the transponder and the TDM module perform a calculation on the challenge. If the calculations match, the TDM sends the start enable message via the serial data circuit to the engine control module (ECM). If either the transponders unique value or the calculation to the challenge is incorrect, the TDM will send the start disable message to the ECM via the serial data circuit. The components of the VTD system are as follows:
• TDM
• ECM
• Ignition key (Transponder)
• Ignition lock cylinder
• Security indicator

Is the light on . when trying to start the vehicle ?

Mar 14, 2017 | Chevrolet Cars & Trucks

2 Answers

Car doesn't crank is it battery, fuses or security tried to crank car din't hear starter but a lot of noises like clicling and sounds from fuil pump i think


Put the key on ACC. Does anti theft light up and stop? If it keep flashing while your cranking then it is the ANTI -THEFT. (by the way the humming noise ifs the fuel pump). If the anti theft doesnt light up during the cranking youll need the ignition module why I say that if it was crank position sensor the fuel pump wouldnt activate. your safe with the ignition module.and if you want it doesnt hurt to replace crank sensor why I say this the year.Its been a while just a suggestion

Apr 23, 2011 | 2004 Buick LeSabre

1 Answer

Can the PCM be at fault for a 2004 dodge durango not starting? I attempted to start my vehicle after it had been operating fine all day and it will not crank, the gauges and all dash lights flash, the horn...


No , probably not . Do you know what a starter relay is ? It's located in the under hood fuse box ! That 30amp fuse sends B+ voltage an current to pin #30 , if you find an pull out the relay an look on the bottom you will see 4 sets of numbers 30 & 87 an 85 &86 . 30 is Battery voltage which when energized the relay will send this B+ voltage through pin 87 to the starter solenoid turning on the starter . You could take a jumper wire an jump those 2 pins an the starter should spin . Now , 85 & 86 are the control side of the relay ,Pin 86 should have B+ voltage supplied by fuse #32 10amp located in the junction block , maybe inside vehicle fuse box . Pin 85 is from the PCM , the PCM will supply a ground to this side of the control circuit if it see's a input from the park neutral safety switch . Do you know what that is ? Try shifting to neutral an see if it starts . Also if jumping pins 30 & 87 the starter doesn't spin . check the Positive battery cable using voltage drop . You may have a bad cable . Starter Voltage Drop

Mar 12, 2017 | 2004 Dodge Durango

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