Question about 2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser

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Engine shutters and almost stalls at idle with a/c on. low speed cooling fan not operating.engine does not heat up when this occurs.suspect wiring or connection problem. fan will work if wire directly to 12volts .

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  • Master
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Change the a/c and fan relays and see if the fan works if it does then the relay is bad Tim

Posted on May 29, 2011

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How to replace coolig fan sending unit on a 2008 chevy uplander


Why ? Did you test ? Hook up a scan tool to see if the PCM/ECM - engine computer is reading coolant temp. ? Testing not guessing ? Do you even know how the system works .

The engine cooling fan system consists of 2 electrical cooling fans and 3 fan relays. The relays are arranged in a series/parallel configuration that allows the engine control module (ECM) to operate both fans together at low or high speeds. The cooling fans and fan relays receive battery positive voltage from the underhood fuse block.
During low speed operation, the ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed fan relay, which is Fan 1 Relay, through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the low speed fan relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and supplies battery positive voltage from Fan 1 Fuse 29 through the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the left cooling fan. The ground path for the left cooling fan is through the Series/Parallel relay, which is the Fan 2 Relay, and the right cooling fan. The result is a series circuit with both fans running at low speed.
During high speed operation the ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed fan relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. The ECM supplies a ground path for the high speed fan relay, which is the Fan 3 Relay, and the Series/Parallel through the high speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the Series/Parallel relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and provides a ground path for the left cooling fan. At the same time the Fan 3 Relay coil is energized, the relay contacts close to provide battery positive voltage from Fan 2 Fuse 33 on the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the right cooling fan. During high speed fan operation, both engine cooling fans have their own ground path. The result is a parallel circuit with both fans running at high speed.
When the request for fan activation is withdrawn, the fan may not turn OFF until the ignition switch is moved to the OFF position or the vehicle speed exceeds approximately 10 mph. This is to prevent a fan from cycling ON and OFF excessively at idle.

Feb 27, 2017 | 2008 Chevrolet Uplander

1 Answer

Need a wiring diagram of the 2 wires from the temp sending unit that controls the temp gauge and cooling fans on a 99 grand am gt. Need to see where they go They disappear behind the engine


The PCM regulates voltage to the coolant fan relays, which operate the fans. Refer to Engine Controls.

Engine Cooling Fan Description - Electric
The electric cooling fans are used to lower the temperature of the engine coolant flowing through the radiator. They are also used to cool the refrigerant (R-134a) flowing through the A/C condenser.
Operation
The electric cooling fan operates when the engine cooling temperature exceeds a certain value. The cooling fan on this engine is controlled by the PCM. The cooling fan has one speed. The PCM turns the cooling fan ON by grounding the coil of the cooling fan relay when certain conditions are met. When the A/C is requested, the cooling fan will also be turned ON.
Power for the cooling fan motors are supplied through Cool Fan #1 and Cool Fan #2 relays. The cooling fan relays are energized when current flows from the fuses in the Cell 23: Cooling Fan Controls , and through the relay coils to ground through the PCM. The Low Speed fans control circuit is grounded for low speed fans operation. During low speed fans operation, both fans run at a slow speed. The High Speed fans control circuit is grounded for high speed operation. During high speed fans operation, both fans run at high speed.
Important: When certain Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are present, the PCM may command the cooling fans to run all the time. It is important to perform Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check prior to diagnosing the engine cooling fans.
If a problem that involves the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit exists, DTC P0480 should set. If the problem affects the high speed cooling fan relay control circuit, DTC P0481 should set. A problem with the ECT sensor should set DTC P0117, P0118, P1114, or P1115. Any of these DTCs will affect cooling fan operation and should be diagnosed before using the Cooling Fan Diagnosis tables. The Cooling Fan Diagnosis tables should be used to diagnose the PCM controlled cooling fans only, if a DTC has not set.

The engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor (3) is a thermistor, a resistor which changes value based on temperature, mounted in the engine coolant stream. Low coolant temperature produces a high resistance (100,000 ohms at -40°C) (-40°F), while high temperature causes low resistance (70 ohms at 130°C) (266°F).
The PCM supplies a 5 volt signal to the ECT sensor through a resistor in the PCM and monitors the terminal voltage. Since this forms a series circuit to ground through the ECT sensor, high sensor resistance (low temperature) will result in high PCM terminal voltage. When the resistance of the ECT sensor is low (high temperature), the terminal voltage will be drawn lower. This terminal voltage indicates engine coolant temperature to the PCM.
A hard fault in the ECT sensor circuit should set either a DTC P0117 or P0118. Remember, these DTCs indicate a malfunction in the engine coolant temperature circuit, so proper use of the DTC table may lead to either repairing a wiring problem or replacing the sensor, to properly repair a problem.

The engine coolant sensor is an input to the PCM , Two wire's both go to the PCM .An the PCM turns on the cooling fans !

DTC P0480 Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit
DTC P0481Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit
The Body Control Module (BCM) request the cooling fans. The BCM sends a Class 2 message to the PCM in order to enable the fans based on various inputs. Thebattery voltage travels to all three cooling fan relay coils. The PCM enables cooling fan relay #1 by providing the ground path. The PCM enables cooling fan relays #2 and mode control together by providing a ground path. The left and right cooling fans are connected in series. This will enable both fans on low speed when the fan #1 relay is energized. When all three fan relays are energized, both fans will operate at high speed. The high speed is possible because the fan relays are wired in a parallel circuit. When the PCM detects that certain DTCs are set, the PCM will enable the cooling fans.
The PCM will enable the engine cooling fans when certain Diagnostic Trouble Codes are set.

Important: A short to ground will cause an open fuse(s). Before performing this diagnostic procedure, inspect the fuse(s) for an open.
1
Did you perform the Instrument Cluster System Check?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Instrument Cluster System Check
2
Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
With the scan tool select Instrument Panel Cluster, Special Functions, Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) gauges.
Perform the Coolant Gauge Sweep Test.
Does the coolant temperature gauge complete a full sweep when commanded?
--
Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check in Engine Controls
Go to Step 3
3
Replace the instrument cluster. Refer to Instrument Cluster Replacement .
Did you complete the repair?
--
Go to Instrument Cluster System Check
--

Your best bet would be to take your vehicle to a qualified repair shop that knows how the system works . An has the tools to diagnose the problem .

Nov 13, 2016 | 1999 Pontiac Grand Am GT

2 Answers

FANS WONT COME ON ,,ALL FUSES,RELAYS AND ELECTRIC FAN MOTORS ARE NEW,,THERMOSTAT IS GOOD,,WHERE IS ELECTRIC FAN TEMP SENSOR LOCATION


op
why not post symptoms first and not a barrage of parts.
must we decode that to a symptom,. kinda hard right.

I will not guess. what is wrong, nor what is not working on your car. now what fans you are talking about, up to 4 fans on cars.

cab blower fan (wild guess blower is ok) and so is HVAC, ?
radiator fans
Condenser fan.

my wild guess to , engine over heats?????????
if yes, the scan it first. no not last FIRST.
it dont work like you think its not a 1988 Samurai.
sorry,
on modern cars, they got smarter, the engine goes
gee the PCM knows water temp why have a fan temp regulator.
hark , now it dont. (saves cash on useless parts)
but has a relay , (well until you have my car and the relay is now 100% electronic, called a huge transistor)
we've used this tech in industry for years, but car makers just learning how still.
i digress. but evolution and history helps diagnosis.
what is there?

Ill look for you, ive posted this 100s of times
the book is 4 bucks to see online. the real deal
lets look now.
XL-7 (the dash matters big time)
answering for , overheats engine, and fans on RAD dead.
(some are staged, PCM brains... now. and also chain ops based on if A/C is on or not) facts.
first I see 2 fans... ok.
the next page shows nice block diagram of the fan system
yup, NOT Simple.

ill post those words for you.
"The engine cooling fan system consists of 2 electrical cooling fans and 3 fan relays. The relays are arranged in a series/parallel configuration that allows the engine control module (ECM) to operate both fans together at low or high speeds. The cooling fans receive positive voltage from the cooling fan relays which receive battery positive voltage from the underhood fuse block.
During low speed operation, the ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed cooling fan relay which is fan 1 relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the low speed fan relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and supplies battery positive voltage from the fan 1 fuse through the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the left cooling fan. The ground path for the left cooling fan is through the series/parallel relay which is fan 2 relay, and the right cooling fan. The result is a series circuit with both fans running at low speed.
During high speed operation the ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed fan relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. The ECM grounds the high speed fan relay, which is fan 3 relay, and the series/parallel relay, which is fan 2 relay through the high speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the series/parallel relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and provides a ground path for the left cooling fan. At the same time the high speed fan relay coil is energized closing the relay contacts and provides battery positive voltage from the fan 2 fuse 1 on the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the right cooling fan. During high speed fan operation, both engine cooling fans have their own ground path. The result is a parallel circuit with both fans running at high speed.
When the request for fan activation is withdrawn, the fan may not turn OFF until the ignition switch is moved to the OFF position or the vehicle speed exceeds approximately 16 km/h (10 mph). This is to prevent a fan from cycling ON and OFF excessively at idle.
end quote.

i bet you didnt scan it , like 99.9 % of all posters here dont.
DTC Descriptors
DTC P0480: Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit
DTC P0481: Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit
DTC P0691: Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit Low Voltage
DTC P0692: Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit High Voltage
DTC P0693: Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit Low Voltage
DTC P0694: Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit High Voltage
Diagnostic Fault Information

is the ECT showing overheat, yes no?
if yes, it must operate a fan or 2.
the book even covers all tests for fans dead, in a large truth table.
both the FSM and alldata.com have that, its no secret ,its published in 4 major places.

lets back up
if the engine coolant is low (no that side tank the engine and rad)
the ECT will lie. if that happens the fans may not come one
that is because the ECT is useless measuring air, for water.
that water must touch ECT for ECT to work.
this is FIRST
then scan the ECT does it show overheating, IT must if it IS overheating. fix that next if it lies to you,(IR gun in hand)

The system has staged fans.
i cant find the trip points in my crappyy online pages.
but is like 225f then 250f trips. is my guess...
about. if the engine over heats, check fuses first then scan it.
it will simply tell you why its bad.
eg, fan1 output dead.
or if you hot wire a fan and its dead, then it is.
(only on cars with non modulated fans,,hot wire them,else not.)

now the link to the 4 buck real book.
the non dash XL7 (my guess) you this pick yourself... cant see car.
https://suzukipitstopplus.com/Products/10182-2007-xl7-service-manual.aspx

this is how it really works
the ECU has software that decide trip points for fans.
hard coded, this is. based on how hot it is and if A/C is on not.
its way smarter than 1988 and better.
the DTC errors can see an open line, shorted to ground or stuck 12v.(runs all time error)
(tells you relay is good or not)

25839272-0kjd5huq4lpr130nt243wle5-3-0.jpg no scanner no joy , sorry, tis a fact.....

25839272-0kjd5huq4lpr130nt243wle5-3-2.jpg

Aug 27, 2015 | 2007 Suzuki XL-7

1 Answer

I have an 05rendezvous,need to locate switches for cooling system,fans aren't co ming on & now I'm going to need a new radiator,cuz plastic broke.But it broke before fans gave out.Which I changed stat


The engine cooling fan system is controlled by the body control module (BCM) and the powertrain control module (PCM) or engine control module (ECM). The BCM performs the calculations as to how long, when and what speed the cooling fans should turn on. The BCM then sends a class 2 message to the PCM/ECM to engage the cooling fan relays. If there is a malfunction with the BCM, the PCM/ECM will control the engine cooling fans independently. The engine cooling system consists of 2 electrical cooling fans and 3 fan relays. The relays are arranged in a series/parallel configuration that allows the PCM/ECM to operate both fans together at low or high speeds. The cooling fans and fan relays receive battery positive voltage from the underhood accessory wiring junction block. The ground path is provided at G100.
During low speed operation, the PCM/ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed fan relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the cooling fan 1 relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and supplies battery positive voltage from the cool fan 1 fuse through the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the left cooling fan. The ground path for the left cooling fan is through the cooling fan 2 relay and the right cooling fan. The result is a series circuit with both fans running at low speed.
During high speed operation the PCM/ECM supplies the ground path for the cooling fan 1 relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. After a 3 second delay, the PCM/ECM supplies a ground path for the cooling fan 3 or S/P relay and the cooling fan 2 relay through the high speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the cooling fan 2 relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and provides a ground path for the left cooling fan. At the same time the cooling fan 2 relay coil is energized closing the relay contacts and provides battery positive voltage from the cool fan 2 fuse on the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the right cooling fan. During high speed fan operation, both engine cooling fans have there own ground path. The result is a parallel circuit with both fans running at high speed.
The BCM and PCM/ECM command Low Speed Fans on under the following conditions:
?€¢
Engine coolant temperature exceeds approximately 106?°C (223?°F).


?€¢
A/C refrigerant pressure exceeds 1 310 kPa (190 psi).


?€¢
After the vehicle is shut off if the engine coolant temperature at key-off is greater than 140?°C (284?°F) and system voltage is more than 12 volts. The fans will stay on for approximately 3 minutes.

The BCM and PCM/ECM command High Speed Fans on under the following conditions:
?€¢
Engine coolant temperature reaches 110?°C (230?°F).


?€¢
A/C refrigerant pressure exceeds 1 655 kPa (240 psi).


?€¢
When certain DTCs set.


The three relays are located in the under hood fuse / relay box ! You need to have it checked for DTC'S -diagnostic trouble codes ! An you need a GM Tech 2 scan tool !
This diagnostic procedure supports the following DTCs:
?€¢
DTC P0480 Cooling Fan 1 Relay Control Circuit


?€¢
DTC P0481 Cooling Fan 2 and 3 or S/P Relay Control Circuit


?€¢
DTC P0691 Cooling Fan 1 Relay Control Circuit Low Voltage


?€¢
DTC P0692 Cooling Fan 1 Relay Control Circuit High Voltage


?€¢
DTC P0693 Cooling Fan 2 and 3 or S/P Relay Control Circuit Low Voltage


?€¢
DTC P0694 Cooling Fan 2 and 3 or S/P Relay Control Circuit High Voltage


  1. Install a scan tool.
  2. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
  3. With a scan tool, command the Fans Low Speed ON and OFF.
Do the low speed engine cooling fans turn ON and OFF with each command?
Go to Step 3
Go to Step 4

3

Important:: A 3 second delay occurs before the powertrain control module (PCM)/engine control module (ECM) changes the cooling fan speed.
With a scan tool, command the Fans High Speed ON and OFF.
Do the high speed engine cooling fans turn ON and OFF with each command?

Aug 08, 2015 | Cars & Trucks

3 Answers

Stalling at low idle


I don't know this specific car. But, if it has one, check your Idle Air Valve. This can cause the engine to stall. If you can hold the gas pedal and the engine will continue to run until you let off the gas, it is likely the IAV. It will not necessarily cause the engine to run rough. That could be a number of things like spark plugs, wires or dirty injectors. It could also be a compression problem. Is the check engine light on?

Mar 04, 2014 | 1995 Dodge Intrepid

1 Answer

Speedometer and Odometer not working at times, matches with engine heat cycle


Your vehicle speed sensor is mounted in the transaxle housing which is also subject to heating and cooling. The wiring harness to and from the speed sensor is also subjected to engine heating and cooling. Anybody that knows anything about electrical circuits can tell you that an electrical circuit's worst enemy is heat. You need to diagnose the vehicle speed sensor circuits like the code is TELLING you to do.

Jun 02, 2012 | 1998 Ford Windstar

1 Answer

When idling my jeep overheats. The cooling fan is running and it speeds up when temperature goes up. The temperature gets close to 260 degrees and the engine tries to stall. when I start moving it cools...


At idling speed an engine does build up a lot of heat and the cooling fan will kick in. In slow moving traffic or traffic jams the temperature gauge can touch the red - particularly on hot days. The reason it cools down when you start moving is because of the air flow through the radiator.

Presumably there are no leaks from the cooling system otherwise you would have mentioned it. In normal circumstances the fan will not be running as you are driving at speed, as the air-flow through the radiator is sufficient to cool things. The fan only kicks in to get rid of excess heat - and this usually occurs at idling speed or after you have parked the car.

If the fan is running all the time as you drive, this points to either a fault in the fan switch, or the car is running too hot. presumably in normal driving the fan isn't running and the temperature gauge reads normal?

It is common - in stationary traffic many cars overheat (particularly big engined models) try to stall and 'cut out'. Restarting can be difficult until the engine cools down.

Is your car overheating in normal driving conditions or just at idle speed? Overheating in normal driving conditions can be caused by things like a failing water pump, blocked radiator, collapsed hose, faulty thermostat or, in the worst case scenario, cylinder head problems.

Overheating at idling speed is 'common'. Check your coolant level. If your car isn't using/losing coolant then there probably is no major problem. You can flush out the cooling system and refill with new coolant - and also check your radiator. Are the cooling fins crumbling with age? Or maybe they're partly clogged with insects and debris from the road? A blast with a hosepipe wil sort that out ..

The question is how much does your car overheat in normal driving? If it doesn't .. it appears as though you have nothing to worry about as such. Most cars have 2 speed fans... the 2nd faster stage kicks in at some point dependant on engine temperature. Perfectly normal.

Aug 14, 2010 | 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee

1 Answer

Heater dump valve, causing car to over-heat when heat is on


To properly diagnose your overheating problem we need to rule out some things.
First: Is there enough coolant/antifreeze in the radiator? Don't just look inside the plastic overflow bottle, but remove the radiator cap (when the engine is cold) and look inside the radiator. You should be able to physically see the fluid level if it is at its proper level. Most cars and trucks will hold 1 1/2-2 gallons of coolant and water mixture. If you have to add more than a pint of fluid you should have the cooling system pressure tested for a leak. If you see any obvious fluid loss on the ground or in the engine compartment, you should also have the system tested for leaks.
Second: If no coolant leak or low fluid level is present, then determine when the overheating complaint occurs.
If the engine overheats while at a stop or idle only:
Most front wheel drive cars use an electric cooling fan motor located in front or behind the radiator. The function of the cooling fan is to improve airflow across the radiator at stops and low speeds. The fan is controlled by sensors that regulate the engine temperature and additional load that might be placed on the engine.
The air conditioning compressor will require the cooling fan to operate at idle as long as the compressor is on. A quick way to check the cooling fan operation is to turn on the air conditioner. The cooling fan should come on with the air conditioner compressor. Some cars will have two electric fans, one is for the radiator and the other is the air conditioner condenser fan. Usually the radiator fan is closer to the middle of the radiator. The radiator fan is responsible for engine cooling, and the condenser fan is responsible for increasing air conditioning efficiency at idle and low speed.
If your vehicle does not have an electric cooling fan on the radiator it will have a belt driven fan blade and fan clutch. This fan should be pulling a large amount of warm to hot air across the radiator onto the engine. What you want to determine with either fan situation is that there is ample airflow across the radiator at idle. The radiator is the primary heat exchange for the engine, and airflow is crucial.
What if the engine overheats while at high speeds on the freeway?
Again, airflow and coolant circulation are crucial. At 55 MPH we can assume you have ample airflow across the radiator, so proper antifreeze circulation is the thing to inspect. I compare overheating at 55MPH to jogging with a sock in your mouth. The faster and longer you jog, the more air you are going to require, and with a sock in your mouth you are going to have to breath extra hard to maintain the proper amount of air to keep you going. At 55MPH the water pump is pumping a large amount of hot antifreeze throughout the cooling system.
If there is a restriction in the system like a kinked radiator hose, a restricted radiator, or a stuck thermostat, it will produce the same affect as the sock in the mouth scenario. Rust and water calcification can accumulate in the radiator and drastically reduce the flow of coolant at high speeds. Removing the radiator from the vehicle for disassembly and cleaning or radiator replacement are the only two real cures for a clogged radiator.
Using a can of "radiator flush" additive might help as preventive maintenance, but will probably just be a waste of time and money trying to correct a restricted radiator.

Hope this helps, best regards.

Nov 21, 2009 | 2001 Lincoln LS

1 Answer

I have an 89 Honda Accord lx and it idles too low


The idle speed for my 88 accord lx is 700-850 rpm for standard idle speed. The stalling is a seperate issue. When were plugs, wires, air/gas filters and distributor last checked? How long has engine been running for when you stall? Is the temprature gauge high? Any lights coming on when stall occurs? I am not a mechanic, but a DYI'er. These are common questions I am always asked when troubleshooting my Honda. :)

Sep 17, 2009 | 1989 Honda Accord 4 Door

3 Answers

Van chevrolet venture 2000


Fifteen minutes! you have bigger problems than only the fans the fans are controlled by a thermo switch that is heated by the coolant, If you have no coolant the sensor cannot activate But fifteen minutes seems like you may have a headgasket problem and steam cannot heat the coolant sensor.OperationNotesThe electric cooling fan operates when the engine cooling temperature exceeds a certain value. The cooling fan on this engine is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) . The PCM turns the cooling fan ON by grounding the coil of the cooling fan relays when certain conditions are met. When the A/C is requested, the cooling fan will also be turned ON.

Power for the cooling fan motors are supplied through Maxifuses(R). The cooling fan relays are energized when current flows from the fuses in the Underhood Accessory Wiring Junction Block, and through the relay coils to ground through the PCM. The Coolant Fan 1 Relay Control Circuit is grounded for low speed fans operation. During low speed fans operation, both fans run at a slow speed. The Coolant Fan 1 Relay Control Circuit is grounded for high speed operation. During high speed fans operation, both fans run at high speed.

IMPORTANT: When certain Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are present, the PCM may command the cooling fans to run all the time. Perform the A Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check prior to diagnosing the engine cooling fans.

For more information regarding the Charging System, refer to Charging System Description , and Charging System Circuit Description in Starting and Charging.

If a problem that involves the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit exists, DTC P0480 Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit should set. If the problem affects the high speed cooling fan relay control circuit, DTC P0481 Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit should set. A problem with the ECT sensor should set DTC P0117 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage, DTC P0118 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor Circuit High Voltage, DTC P1114 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor Circuit Intermittent Low Voltage, DTC P1115 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor Circuit Intermittent High Voltage. Any of these DTCs will affect cooling fan operation and should be diagnosed before using the Electric Cooling Fan Diagnosis.

For more information regarding the Cooling System refer to Engine Cooling Fan Description - Electric, and Cooling System Description in Cooling System.


Here is the electrical schematic and how it all is suppose to work,
If you need any further help please contact me Thank you,Randy If you find this information helpful please give me a good rating

www.aceautomotive1.com

Aug 16, 2008 | 2000 Chevrolet Venture

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