Question about 1990 Buick Regal

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1990 regal vin W, 3100, car stalled, [towed home ] no fuel pressure ??, next morning started right up, low fuel pressure, replace fuel/filter, started right up, idled great for about 10 minutes, engine stalled, willnot start or sputter, test no spark ??? check icm/coils, OK, replaced computer, cas, check wireing voltage ???? still no spark ??

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  • flapper070 Jan 02, 2011

    as stated i had the icm tested by auto parts store and i ohm checked the coils ???

  • flapper070 Jan 03, 2011

    ONE OF THE FIRST THING WAS RPLACEING CRANK SENSOR, HOW ABOUT CAM SENSOR OR A REALLY WORN TIMING CHAIN ??? I USE TO WORK IN BUICK DEALSHIP, NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE !!

  • flapper070 Jan 03, 2011

    bought a wire harness for the cas to icm , was my plan B, from local you-pull-it, if thats not it i'll check chain,,,,and keep you informed, i've certain model cars with corrosion/wireing problems !

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5 Answers

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Welcome to Fixya

You might need to check the ignition module or the crank sensor.The module is under the coil pack. Please check this link on how to test the module. If test is ok then you might need to replace the crank sensor. This two parts usually cause no spark to the car.

Thank you for using Fixya!

Posted on Jan 03, 2011

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Check to see if you have injector pulse by using a test light which you can purchase at oriellys. It is calle a noid light. Plug the noid light into the connector and crank the engine. The light should flash.If it does not flash than chances are you need a crankshaft sensor which is located behind the harmonic balancer. You have to remove the crankshaft pulley to get to the sensor. You can take a paper clip and jump the two terminals A&B on the mil connector ( where you hook up a scanner) to see if there are any codes in the computer. You can do this by counting the amount of flashes the check engine light puts out. You still need a repair manual to help you do this. You can contact me and it will be able to explain. My number is posted.

Posted on Jan 03, 2011

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Hi,

Usually this problem is caused by the crankshaft position sensor.If you have access to a scanner just look for engine RPM while spinning the engine over if you don't see any RPM change the sensor.

Let me know,if needed further assistance.

Hope i helped you.

Thanks for using ' Fixya ' and have a nice day!!

Posted on Jan 02, 2011

  • taran_2005
    taran_2005 Jan 03, 2011

    Thanks for your response!!

    The cam sensor is not needed for starting the engine, just the crank sensor and the ignition control module. As you have checked and replaced both, have you checked very thoroughly the wires from the crank sensor to the ignition module i
    mean even take the wires out of the plastic looms and black tape and
    check them all..if those all look good then we are going to have to
    check the wires that go from the ignition module to the computer.Slipping of timing chain could cause the same.

    Check and let me know,so that we could proceed.

    Hope i helped you.

    Thanks for using ' Fixya ' and have a nice day!!


  • taran_2005
    taran_2005 Jan 03, 2011

    Thanks for your response!!

    You are welcome. Do let me know the update and do not forget to accept my solution if it has been of any help.

    Hope to hear from you soon.

    Thanks and Regards
    taran_2005

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If no spark - test the ICM.... Ignition control module.


TESTING Remove the ignition coil(s).

  1. Using an ohmmeter, check the resistance between the primary terminals on the underside of the coil. The resistance should be 0.50-0.90 ohms.
  2. Check the resistance between the secondary terminals. It should be 5000-10,000 ohms.
  3. If the coil failed either test, replace the coil.
REMOVAL and INSTALLATION
See Figure 1
  1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
  2. Tag and disconnect the spark plug wires.
  3. Unfasten the 2 retaining screws securing the coil to the ignition module, then remove the remove the coil assembly.
  4. To install:
  5. Position the coil assembly to the ignition module. -5 Nm).

  1. Attach the spark plug wires as tagged during removal.
  2. Connect the negative battery cable.

1990 regal vin W, 3100, car stalled,  [towed home - blueextc3221_0.jpg

Posted on Jan 02, 2011

  • blueextc3221
    blueextc3221 Jan 02, 2011

    Vehicles with the 3.8L engine are equipped with the Computer Controlled Coil (C 3 I). This system may also be called the Electronic Ignition (EI) system on later models. This system features a distributorless ignition engine. The C 3 I/EI system consists of 3 ignition coils, an Ignition Control Module (ICM), a dual crank sensor also, camshaft sensor, connecting wires, and the Electronic Spark Timing (EST) portion of the Electronic Control Module (ECM).

    When the term Electronic Control Module (ECM) is used in this information, it refers to the engine control computer; regardless, if the term Powertrain Control Module (PCM) or Electronic Control Module (ECM) is used.

    The ECM uses the EST circuit to control spark advance and ignition dwell, when the ignition system is operating in the EST mode. There are 2 modes of ignition system operation. These modes are as follows:




    Module mode-the ignition system operates independently of the ECM/PCM, with module mode spark advance always at 10 degrees BTDC. The ECM has no control of the ignition system when in this mode.

    EST mode-the ignition spark timing and ignition dwell time is fully controlled by the ECM. EST spark advance and ignition dwell is calculated by the ECM.


    To control spark knock, and to use maximum spark advance to improve driveability and fuel economy, an Electronic Spark Control (ESC) system is used. This system consists of a knock sensor and an ESC module. The ECM monitors the ESC signal to determine when engine detonation occurs.



    SYSTEM OPERATION




    The C 3 I ignition system uses a waste spark distribution method. Each cylinder is paired with the cylinder opposite it (i.e. 1-4, 2-5, 3-6). The ends of each coil secondary is attached to a spark plug. These 2 plugs are on companion cylinders, cylinders that are at top dead center at the same time. The one that is on compression is said to be the event cylinder and the one on the exhaust stroke, the waste cylinder. When the coil discharges, both plugs fire at the same time to complete the series circuit.

    Since the polarity of the primary and the secondary windings are fixed, one plug always fires in a forward direction and the other in reverse. This is different than a conventional system firing all plugs the same direction each time. Because of the demand for additional energy; the coil design, saturation time and primary current flow are also different. This redesign of the system allows higher energy to be available from the distributorless coils, greater than 40 kilovolts at all rpm ranges.

    During cranking, when the engine speed is beneath 400 rpm, the C 3 I module monitors the dual crank sensor sync signal. The sync signal is used to determine the correct pair of cylinders to be sparked first. Once the sync signal has been processed by the ignition module, it sends a fuel control reference pulse to the ECM.

    During the cranking period, the ECM will also receive a cam pulse signal and will operate the injectors sequentially, based on true camshaft position only.

    The sync signal is used only by the ignition module. It is used for spark synchronization at start-up only.

    When the engine speed is beneath 400 rpm (during cranking), the C 3 I module controls the spark timing. Once the engine speed exceeds 400 rpm (engine running) spark timing is controlled by the EST signal from the ECM. To control EST the ECM uses the following inputs:




    Crankshaft position

    Engine speed (rpm)

    Coolant Temperature Sensor

    Mass Air Flow

    Throttle Position Sensor

    Park/Neutral Switch

    Vehicle Speed Sensor

    ESC signal


    The C 3 I ignition module provides proper ignition coil sequencing during both the module and the EST modes.

    The ESC system is designed to ****** spark timing up to 10 degrees to reduce spark knock in the engine. When the knock sensor detects spark knocking in the engine, it sends an A/C voltage signal to the ECM, which increases with the severity of the knock. The ECM then adjusts the EST to reduce spark knock.



    SYSTEM COMPONENTS




    The C 3 I module monitors the sync-pulse and the crank signal. During cranking the C 3 I module monitors the sync-pulse to begin the ignition firing sequence. During this time, each of the 3 coils are fired at a pre-determined interval based on engine speed only. Above 400 rpm, the C 3 I module is only use as a reference signal.

    Ignition Coil

    The ignition coil assemblies are mounted on the C 3 I module. Each coil distributes the spark for 2 plugs simultaneously.

    Electronic Spark Control (ESC)

    The ESC system incorporates a knock sensor and the ECM. The knock sensor detects engine detonation. When engine detonation occurs, the ECM receives the ESC signal and retards EST to reduce detonation.

    Electronic Spark Timing (EST)

    The EST system includes the following circuits:




    Reference circuit-provides the ECM with rpm and crankshaft position information from the C 3 I module. The C 3 I module receives this signal from the crank sensor hall-effect switch.

    Bypass signal-above 400 rpm, the ECM applies 5 volts to this circuit to switch spark timing control from the C 3 I module to the ECM.

    EST signal-reference signal is sent to the ECM via the C 3 I module during cranking. Under 400 rpm, the C 3 I module controls the ignition timing. Above 400 rpm, the ECM applies 5 volts to the bypass line to switch the timing to the ECM control.


    Electronic Control Module (ECM) or Powertrain Control Module (PCM)

    The ECM/PCM is responsible for maintaining proper spark and fuel injection timing for all driving conditions.

    Dual Crank Sensor

    The dual crank sensor is mounted in a pedestal on the front of the engine near the harmonic balancer. The sensor consists of 2 hall-effect switches, which depend on 2 metal interrupter rings mounted on the balancer to activate them. Windows in the interrupters activate the hall-effect switches as they provide a path for the magnetic field between the switches transducers and magnets.

  • blueextc3221
    blueextc3221 Jan 02, 2011

    or do you have the iDi ignition?

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Hi Sir you can try this link for for no start problems to all what needed to be checked Please Visit http://www.samarins.com/diagnose/index.html . Hope this one helps. thanks

Posted on Jan 02, 2011

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