Question about 2006 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

6 Answers

Filling fuel tank

Several days ago I found that I could not put any fuel into my tank without the station's pump auto-shut-off stopping the flow after a second or two. It takes me 10 mins, to get 2 gals in. I'm an old-school GM mechanic, so I thought there might be an obstruction in the access tube. I took it off at the tank, carefully disconnecting the vapor return tube and removed it up to the neck. The screens in the rubber hose were clean and passable and the metel and rubber sections were unobstructed. I reached into the tank and the spring return backflow mechanism seemed to be free and operating correctly. After reassembly, same result at 3 different stations/pumps-almost instant pump shutoff upon beginning of gasflow. What's up???

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  • 5 more comments 
  • ratspace Jun 29, 2008

    Pierre suggested that there must be mud in my "little square vent tube". I had it on my lift today and it's pretty clean and as I said, the vapor return line is clear in and out- it can't vent to the outside air by law, so something tells me that this solution wasn't quite deep enough.

  • ratspace Jun 29, 2008

    I would appreciate if only GM mechanics would respond tom this issue as I have pretty extensive knowledge of basic fuel systems. If there was a supply problem to the engine it would be reflected in engine performance/economy-which it is not. Please don't guess at this-just repspond if you really know GM fuel systems. Thanks.

  • ratspace Jun 29, 2008

    Does this tank have another air outlet other than the one that I described which I blew and sucked air in and out of quite freely. Could something else inside the tank be obstructing the airflow when fuel enters? Nothing of anysize could have even gotten by those metal screens, so it would have to be something already inside this tank which is malfunctioning.

  • ratspace Jun 29, 2008

    Thanks for all of the suggestions-if I had time to leave it at my dealership, then I wouldn't be doing this...I was hoping to encounter some experienced mechanic who may have seen this specific issue with this specific vehicle before. Please don't respond to this last posting unless you are that person as I have pretty much covered all of the basic suggestions you all have made. I'd like to feel like I haven't wasted my $10, so... Experts only at this point, please!

  • ratspace Jun 30, 2008

    Thanks to Benimur for the advice on gas nozzle opeation and positioning suggestions. I have attempted many angles of nozzle position and even the old school trick of pulling the seal back a bit to release any excess pressure, all to no avail. What bothers me is that it has operated normally since I puchased new in Jan.'06. What could malfunction in the system to cause this behavior? Is there a fuel or fuel vapor system or sensor which could be inhibiting the passage of fuel from the access tube into the tank? I felt the spring-loaded anti-backflow mechanism when I reached into the tank with my finger and it seemed that it required very litle pressure to move it forward.I would think that the pressure at the pump would be more than adequate. Maybe it's just 30 miles to the dealership and public transpo for a few days!

  • ratspace Jun 30, 2008

    Thanks Benimur. But what if the station I've been using for 20+ years has not made any changes to their equipment according to the owner- a high school friend...why should this start all of a sudden? Never has it had any problem filling up at any of a couple of dozen other stations either? I'm perplexed.

  • ratspace Jun 30, 2008

    Finally a fellow ASE mechanic!!! OK, now I feel better that I haven't overlooked something simple. It's just wierd that it started so suddenly. I've got several short vacations planned this Summer and I don't feel like specding them standing at the pump. Heading for the dealership tomorrow morning. Thanks!

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6 Answers

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Information at links below may be usefull. http://www.geigertechnik.de/products/automotive/fuel_components/index_eng.html http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JETPEZ000124000002000412000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes The flow behaviour during automotive refuelling is gaining greater importance due to recent pollution laws and contemporary trends in automotive fuel system design. A comprehensive study is reported on the simulation of flows within automotive filler pipes by means of a volume-of-fluid method. Virtual optimisations of the filler pipe geometry and the inlet and outlet shape are presented with the aid of the numerical approach. The results may be useful for the discussion of similar refuelling flows in non-automotive applications, too. This work has been supported by the refuelling research initiative of Kautex Textron GmbH & Co. KG. The author wishes to acknowledge the helpful suggestions and recommendations made by the referee which have improved the quality of the paper.

Posted on Jun 30, 2008

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Well i am a GM ASE certified mechanic and i have seen this before on a Monte Carlo. We ended up doing everything we could think of and ended up having to drop in a new tank so carmax could sell it. This one was a little older the generation before yours. Even with the tank off we couldnt figure it out.


Later when we had the tank off we tried to hook up a water hose to See if it will fill and the water would spit back out. Yet there were no obstructions and even replaced the inlet tube. I thought it was a fluke when we fixed it. Maybe the old owner had done something. But i dont know now that i hear a consumer side of the story. It makes me think twice, we never really looked to deep into it cause they said to just replace it. So i wish i had more input on a fix other then dropping the tank and replacing it.

Posted on Jun 30, 2008

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  • Nathan Ayers
    Nathan Ayers Jun 30, 2008

    Maybe try changing the ventilation and inlet tubing first. Then if that doesnt work buy a tank. Might end up being cheaper if it works or more expensive if it doesnt. Just cause the ones that come with it all are only like 40 dollars over just buying a tank. I think in general you would save like 30-50 dollars buying it all together. But its just a suggestion to try and save some money. Glad i could be of help.

  • Nathan Ayers
    Nathan Ayers Jun 30, 2008

    Oh and please let me know how it goes or if you need any further information.



    Thanks,

    Nate


  • Nathan Ayers
    Nathan Ayers Jun 30, 2008

    Oh ya i forgot about that it is under 2 years goto the dealership and have them do the replacement for it due to factory defect.

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Hi,

I am not a GM mechanic but if I may share my experiences with similar concerns, the problem is that the fuel is not flowing fast enough down the throat/access tube/filler tube and/or there is considerable back spillage activating the gas station's pump nozzle's auto-shut-off. The nozzle's overfill sensor port is positioned less than an inch from the nozzle end/tip. In turn the sensor port when fuel enters it activates a diaphragm inside a vacuum chamber that releases the latch keeping the hold open lever engaged, hence the auto-shut-off.

What I have tried:
1. Inserting the pump nozzle only 3/4 of the way in into the access tube, not fully;
2. angle the nozzle assembly parallel to the ground not the usual perpendicular to the ground. Of course some stations' hoses are kinda not cooperative;
3. another thing that was checked out was that the access tube did not have any kinks, sharp bends or twist or see if you can mod the access tube/filler tube by replacing with a lightly larger inner diameter or one with a better curvature.

Hope this be of initial help/idea. Pls post back how things turned up or should you need additional information.

Good luck and kind regards.

Thank you for using FixYa.

Posted on Jun 29, 2008

  • Louie  Role
    Louie Role Jun 30, 2008

    Hi again,

    Appreciate the postback and additional information. I was actually relating to an exact same problem with a Ford Escape. In all the tried solutions, none actually worked perfectly. The vehicles was even brought in to the dealer based on a "almost recall order" for that particular problem. The reference was a Technical Service Bulletin from Ford TSB 05-18-4. And here is the funny/sad part, even after the "fix" (replace the access/filler tube) Ford could and would not gurantee that the problem will not rrecur. Apparently, the real problem is that a good number of gas filling stations have thier pumps set to make the fuel flow faster in order to service their clients likewise faster and any obstruction (including the spring-loaded anti-backflow mechanism) is sufficient to create a back spillage flooding the overfill sensor of the nozzle. There is a specific US DOT regulation on the fuel flow from the nozzle which car manufacturer follow when designing throat and tube diameter, but gas stations are not compelled to follow said same regulation as they are under the jurisdiction of another government agency to my understanding.

  • Louie  Role
    Louie Role Jun 30, 2008

    Perplexing indeed!

    OK how about this, (temporary, workaround, and may be frowned upon by others), while filling likewise insert a small diameter (0.25 inch) tubing straight down the throat until you force open the spring-loaded anti-backflow mechanism. When filling, try to feel the exposed end of the tubing, if air is coming out, then it is a clogged air vent, if not and no auto-stop on the nozzle, then it is the anti-backflow mechanism which then could be a spring problem or the valve itself not seated properly and therefore scrapping along the side/edges.

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There is pressure building inside the rank which cause the pump to ******* , there is obruction in the air flow there is blockage in the tank......please check air outlet in the fuel tank it may have blocked...........

Posted on Jun 29, 2008

  • Anand Kumar
    Anand Kumar Jun 29, 2008

    I think this is the problem with car company factory defect which is causing this problem get it with dealer and rectify the problem from them ,Tell them there could have a factory defect as this car is under 2 years old and it should have a warranty...........Please get it checked ..................



    Good luck..........


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There might be any obstruction in the flow other than in the access tubes ...
may be in the pipes where the fuel takes the way to engine .....

Posted on Jun 29, 2008

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There a vent under behind the gas tank little square tube there hole in it there mush have mud on it

Posted on Jun 29, 2008

  • pierre laplante Jun 29, 2008

    ive seen that offen people think the vent in the pipe but those gm there under i dont no if you whent on a dirt road or mud

  • pierre laplante Jun 29, 2008

    spray some water under the car directly behind the gas tank if our lucky you wont have to under it thank you

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