Question about 2001 Ford Crown Victoria

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Surge Problem Robotek, The surge is pretty substantial. The RPM's go up top the point where the car wants to lurch ahead even with your foot on the brake. Coming into the garage I need to be very careful with it as it will go into the wall if I am not really anticipating the surge. Any ideas?

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You could try disconnecting the air valve and see what happens.The car may stall when idling if you turn on the air, just set it to idle high and leave the air on all the time :)
Keep me updated man

regards
robotek

Posted on Jun 23, 2008

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Car surging


Is the car equipped with the Automatic Transmission?
If so, read on.
Otherwise skip to the end and answer some questions.

POSSIBLE SCENARIO:
I have observed a condition where my car surges slightly when the torque-converter clutch (TCC) cycles between lock and unlock when driving on an uphill grade.
First some basics and history that will explain why the TCC is used.

Engine, Torque Converter, TCC, and Transmission relationship--
The TCC allows for a solid connection between the engine and transmission which allows the input to the transmission to rotate at the same speed as the engine.
Without a TCC, there is slippage between the engine and automatic transmission. The slippage is greatest at low engine RPM. That is what allows the engine to run with the automatic transmission in gear, like when you first shift into gear or stop at a stop sign. When the throttle pedal is depressed, the engine RPM begins to increase and the torque converter begins to slip less and less the more the engine RPM increases. The car moves. But even at cruising speeds the torque converter slips slightly. Engine RPM is greater than transmission input RPM, which is realized as slight decrease in fuel efficiency.
When acceleration is complete and a constant speed is being maintained, the engine power output is reduced to the point where the TCC can engage and eliminate any slippage between the engine and transmission. If the car has a tachometer the engagement of the TCC can be verified when a slight reduction in engine RPM observed without a corresponding change in vehicle speed.
One method used to test the operation of the TCC is as follows:
Find a flat section of road where it is safe to perform the test.
Reach a steady speed and keep the gas pedal depressed with one foot. While observing the tachometer (or listening for an increase in engine RPM), with the other foot depress the brake pedal enough to activate the break light switch but not enough to engage the brakes. When the brake light switch activates, the TCC receives a signal to disengage. With the gas pedal being held steady, release the brake pedal and the engine RPM should decrease when the TCC engages.
Old cars with Automatic Transmissions did not use a TCC. I believe the TCC was put in use in an attempt to increase fuel economy.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH SIMILAR SYMPTOMS
The condition that causes that issue on my car is this:
- A slight uphill grade increases the load on the engine.
The car tends to gradually slow and it is necessary to depress the gas pedal to maintain speed.
- Depressing the throttle pedal (manually, or automatically with cruise control engaged) signals the torque converter clutch to unlock when the load increases slightly. (A more drastic load increase would signal the Transmission to downshift to a lower gear.) The corresponding increase in engine RPM and output is enough to compensate for the reduction in speed. When the vehicle speed, engine RPM, and throttle position stabilize to the point that the TCC will engage and the engine RPM will reduce in correspondence with TCC engagement. Now, if the road conditions have not changed, power output is not enough to maintain vehicle speed. With the increased load caused by full engagement between engine and transmission, and the cycle (surging) repeats itself until the road conditions change.

Does that help?
If not:

QUESTIONS
Please define the symptoms.
What are the road conditions when the surge occurs? (A slight uphill grade?)
What is the frequency of the surge?
Does the engine power output have a noticeable surge?
Is there a speed change related to the surge?
Does the tachometer move up and down with little or no change in vehicle speed?
Are all instrument indication in the normal range?
What else has changed?

Good luck!

May 24, 2014 | Subaru Impreza WRX STi Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

Surging


Hi billberger2

When the air conditioner turns on, the car computer also increases the engines revs to counter the load of the air con. It should not generally be noticeable however. Will do some research to see why. :)

regards
robotek

Jun 20, 2008 | 2001 Ford Crown Victoria

1 Answer

Throttle surge at idol


surge, great post, what engine displacement.
open hood (my answers are USA only) look up, see big white
sticker that is the engine vacuum and type engine sticker)
surge hot or cold? engine.
if it surges hot, that means :
1: ISC system out of control , it job is to stop surge and 5 more things.
2: the engine is way lean and cause ISC to loose control

just 2 reasons, and can be 50 things. wrong.
is the CEL lamp out running> if not, pull the DTC codes and post them. (all)
as a mech ,we find out which it is.
(i make sure my engine can hold closed loop at idle , if not and lean it will surge. (may)
we make sure the ISC works ok (not sticking, clean it)
and then test to see , that if by my forcing it closed, by hand (ask)
i can get way below 800 RPM. most do 500 but 600 is ok.
if rpm stays above 800 closed, that means you have huge
vacuum leak or TV blackage (too thight throttle cable?)

finding vacuum leaks can be horrific, task .
there are many tricks (and tests) to do this, ask.

see that logic above, If I the mech, can not drop rpm below 800
by hand, then no ISC on earth can. not now or ever.
and proves the induction has huge air leaks
or some dolt set the spark timing 20 degrees advanced.
see it.
so as always , a tuneup is first, then as always , i always check timing,and for proper advance rates.
advances engines at idle race way too fast and the iSC will just go NUTS.

ISC = Idle speed controller , that valve that has wires.
the IAC is a thermal device and no wires and it too can stick open
when the IAC sticks open the ISC goes , yes, nuts,
nuts can be surge (ECU is hunting it)
or just racing way too fast hot, say 1500 rpm.
a slow RPm can be a stuck open EGR (50k service point)
lean will cause too low.
too rich , misfires and too low
the ISC is the last thing to work right, all else must be good.

what does your CEL lamp do?

PS: most cars, if the ECU/PCM enters Limphome, it cuts all idle controls. again, the CEL lamp. glowing while running.../????

Nov 28, 2013 | 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol

1 Answer

Possibile vacuum line leak,not sure,4.7 ltr 2002 dodge ram,rpm surge sometimes going down road,even stopped sometimes,wondering what would cuase problem


dodge from 2001 to 2003 this will occure when the tps is going out jst change the tps (throttle position sensor) and it should stop if you dont their will come a point where you will have prob getting the engine to even start

Aug 01, 2011 | Dodge Ram 1500 Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

When I start my 1999 honda CRV it surges to about


no the surge that high is not normal a normal cold start should go to around 1500 then settle slowly to 750 or so but this all depends on engine temp and ambient air temperature

Feb 07, 2010 | Honda CR-V Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

My 5.2 Grand Cher. will not accelerate above 2k rpm and will lose speed on hills. Even with foot down to floor at 15mph it has slight surge and starts to bog


the most common problem is the air mass metor this controls the air intake which sends a message to your ecu if it sends the wrong message your car will go into limp mode

Feb 03, 2010 | 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee

2 Answers

Surge at low speed


Do you have one of those oiled air filters? If so I'd start looking at the mass air flow sensor. Also this could be a fueling issuse. The pump may not be able to keep up.
Is there any codes in the PCM?

Jul 01, 2009 | 1998 GMC Sierra

1 Answer

Fuel surge


that may be your throttle position sensor

Mar 11, 2009 | 2000 Chevrolet Blazer

1 Answer

Engine light on ,2500 rpm surge, and no cruise control


That is normal operation. Take the car for a ride and try it then. Zoom Zoom

Jul 30, 2008 | 2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser

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