Question about 2003 Pontiac Montana

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I have a 2003 pontiac montana. The driver side window would roll down fine using the power switch. But rolling it up is a problem. It rolls up crooked and is slow. Had to grab the glass by my hand and help. I took it to a garage and we replaced the slider for the glass, the old one looked loose at the joints that swivel. The new mechanism worked fine for about 2 months and is now acting the same as the old one. Slow and crooked rise. We did not change the motor, just the track hardware. Any ideas?

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  • William Shadid Nov 08, 2010

    So far, I've been told that the problem is with my motor or regulator and to check them. Thats pretty vague...I knew this already. I'm looking for advice on how to fix the window mechanism without changing it for the 2nd time. I'm guessing there is some kind of design error with these parts.

  • William Shadid Nov 09, 2010

    Hi Greg,



    Now I think I'm talking to the right guy.

    I refer to the track, the scissor like bars and the glass guides as the mechanism. The window is attached to the track via pressure clips. The track is moved using these scissor like bars. The bars attach to the track using swivel like hardware. When I observe the mechanism working when the window is raised and lowered, it looks like the swivel points have so much play in them (like ball joints) that the window is able to rise up crooked and jam a little on the window guides.

    I found a website called pontiacproblems.com, this site indicates that many folks have encountered the problem, it appears to be a design flaw, but becuase it is not considered a safety hazard, it has not been dealt with by Pontiac.

    Rather than change out all the pieces that I lump into mechansim, do you think I could repair the swivel points somehow? I live up in Ottawa and we do get all the weather extremes.



    Thx, Bill.

  • William Shadid Nov 10, 2010

    Hi Greg,



    I was in the garage and was assisting the mechanic somewhat. My window did not have the clip you are taliking about. Mine has 2 small holes at the bottom of the glass. Two small wedge shaped plastic clips attach to the glass via these holes. the plastic clips then slide into two seperate metal brackets that use a pressure and alignment holes to hold these clips. These matel brackets are attached to the a metal track which is inturn attached to the sciccor bars. The glass just runs along 2 grooved guides that direct the glass into the weathershield. may be we are talking the same pieces but their position on the glass is different in our 2 cars. ????

    The scissors attach to the track bar in 2 seperate spots, these joints are like ball joints. I agree that there should be some play but I'm thinking that too much play on 1 bar joint will cause the glass to rise crooked ( from what I see, that is whats happening) and therefore, the glass jams on the guides.



    I'm guessing that I'm SOL on this matter. Thanks for your help anyways.

    Bill.

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  • Pontiac Master
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Sounds like your regulator is not aligned correctly and not riveted in all the needed places. It could also be that your door metal has a crack in it, and when the window raises to a certain level, the metal in the door can't support it and it gets out of alignment.

I have done this type of work at a GM dealership and replacing and repairing these window is pretty tricky, so go back and really retrace all your steps. Did you follow the instructions in the service manual, when you did this, because there are instructions for how to adjust and align the window and the regulator.

Keep us updated about your solutions.

Posted on Nov 11, 2010

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  • Master
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OK......there are 2 reasons why this occurs...one is the electric motor that with age increases resistance and becomes an extra load on top of the window itself, but this is more seen in cars 10 years or older......in your case, I would be leaning towards the rubber moulding that the glass slides in...it is called the bailey channel rubber...and abnormal wear (as caused by the previous failure), would have made this worse.....try changing the rubber moulding and see how that works...

Posted on Nov 09, 2010

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  • Master
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Your problem is the window regulator.Sometimes you can get it separate and sometimes you need to get the motor and the regulator assembly.The regulator is what keeps it going up straight.What you need to do with the door panel off and while working the window up and down.Watch to see if the cables on the regulator are staying in place or moving properly.You should be able to see the problem by working it up and down.Let me know if you have any more questions.Good luck.

Posted on Nov 08, 2010

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  • Master
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It is just somewhat normal aging with this system.The problem isn't the track or mechanism(I think).I am assuming by mechanism you are talking about the framing in the bottom half of the door which basically holds the window?It is the clip which attaches to the window near the top and towards the rear part of the car.It slides in a track there and just loosens after time because the wear in the track and the constant use causes it to either just loosen up or is affected by the transition of seasons if you are in a cold climate winter.It always used to happen to my Buick.I can't exactly remember if it became unattached or slowly went out of place.It definitely was a pain in the neck so I know exactly what you mean about grabbing the glass.Same exact thing.I tried a new clip and it didn't last long,however,I never thought about the track in the window section of the door.Is that the track you are talking about?Or perhaps the glass is loose in the bottom half of the door unless that is the mechanism you are talking about?The clip is cheap and easy to find but I can't guarantee it fixing it.Don't say yes or no yet unless you want to because it cuts off our communication I think,but I would like you to clarify a little about if I interpreted it correctly.It's harder to describe on a computer than on a phone/in person. Greg

Posted on Nov 08, 2010

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  • Greg McCarthy Nov 09, 2010

    Thanks for clearing that.The problem I had was the same too.Push up by hand.This is what I am having trouble explaining though.On the glass,there is a clip,near the top of the window, to keep it in the track all the way up the door,towards the rear side of the car,until closing.Looking at the door,you can't exactly see it,because it is normally covered with felt.It seems that it may just have a little bit of it holding it in the track at the top when the window is down,then when you put the window up,year after year,somehow it either reams the track or the clip becomes loose or something over time because only a small portion at the top is held in and the rest probably wiggles a little with the window pressure forcing it back up and in.When your window is down,if your door is still apart,look up at that area of the window.Top and towards the rear of the car.It is barely noticeable,most likely anyhow,but look and see if you can find if there is one there.I think there is because it sounds exactly like what mine did and it was so hard to find,until I took the door panel off.My mechanism was also loose.I think it is supposed to be designed somewhat like that though.Since the window curves a little as it goes up and down,and is not exactly a straight up and down shot,it really needs to have some play built in because the glass would shatter if it weren't.That is what it appeared to be in my car anyhow and looking at many other cars,they do not look like the window is exactly straight up and down either.In my Buick,I was in way upstate NY too and I think the weather does affect it because of the extremes.I hope you understood this.It's basically a $5 plastic clip is what I am trying to get you to see if it is there.It seems they haven't changed.Greg
    Will be checking back after dinner.

  • Greg McCarthy Nov 09, 2010

    I was thinking and curved wasn't the correct term.Angled slightly would be better.When you look at the door from the outside,it is pretty obvious that it is not straight up and down.The mechanism would be very difficult to mount at an angle so it is most likely designed to have a little play in it so the glass doesn't shatter.Greg

  • Greg McCarthy Nov 10, 2010

    Sorry,not actually.Mine still had all those parts you talked about to hold on the glass,but there was the one where I mentioned,to prevent the glass from doing what it is doing now.Perhaps it is different now,unsure.The clip I am talking about may have popped off of yours,if it's built that way.If the mechanic will let you,take a look at the parts breakdown for the system.That would show if it is there or not.Buick and Pontiac are basically both GM so who knows?I have a library up the street and will take a look at the books.They have chiltons and haynes available to look at.Perhaps by Friday.Greg And yes it goes up into 2 tracks.The clip holds it solid against the back for smoothness,and the front is curved so it cannot have one.

  • Greg McCarthy Nov 10, 2010

    I just thought of something too.The clip I talk about,may be jammed or stuck in the track.It would be barely noticeable.Try running a thin screwdriver along the track to see if it gets hung up.

  • Greg McCarthy Nov 10, 2010

    Another thing just came to me.It was a long time ago sorry.I think it connected at the top of the glass by a pin which pops together the 2 halves of the clip.The whole clip is plastic.The top rear of the glass will likely have a smooth hole or a groove where it goes.If that isn't it,I also give up. SOL here too lol.(throws hands in air).Greg

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