Question about 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix

5 Answers

My Pontiac GTP 3.8 super charged. 10,700 original miles, just sits on driveway. Wife has been ill since car was purchased. I just drive around the block once every now an then. This year developed a start, run 3 seconds and quits. Restarts each time and quits. I keep it running by quickly placing it into gear. Then it stays running, and will restart and run for hours. Car still has awesome power. I replace body mounted fuel filter. Tested fuel pressure regulator, 48-55 psi. I replace it anyway. Same problem. I am a mechanic. Stops working on cars since 1990. I have a ODB scanner I purchased in 2007. And fuel pressure testing kit. Any clues?

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  • 6 more comments 
  • vincea51 Nov 08, 2010

    iambanshee74, The year is a 2000 Pontiac GTP, somehow the program had 2005 listed.
    The car is 10 years old now.
    Since I replaced the fuel filter and the fuel pressure regulator, the type with the snap ring holding it into the mounting on the fuel rail, I have driven it at parkway speeds and local streets, several times. Earlier in the week it started three mornings in a row, by just turning the key once. then the next morning, it started ran 3 seconds and quit. I tried it 6 times, then finally the 7th time, I placed it into gear, and it stayed running. I shut it off, and it started normally. The next morning, the same thing. There are no faults, and it also passed inspection between all these start and stall episodes.

    Vince

  • vincea51 Nov 09, 2010

    I have driven the car through more than two complete cycles. I had to set the 5 on board state inspection sensors. When they were set, the car passed state inspection. But still, the starting problem when the car sits. This morning I could not get it to stay running even trying to put it into gear There was even unburnt gas exhaust smoking from dual exhausts.

    Vince

  • vincea51 Nov 10, 2010

    My wife's Pontiac 2000, GTP, 3.8 supercharged car. We live in New York. The car has been mostly sitting on the driveway due to wife's illness. The car has only 10,700 in ten years.
    I would start it maybe every two weeks and drove it a short distance. Beginning this year the car which normally started right up, would start run 2-3 seconds and stall. I would restart it 4 or 5 times with not continued run. I had found, that if I started the engine and quickly placed it into gear, it would stay running, then subsequently would restart with no stalling. I replaced the ignition wires this spring, same problem. Last week I replaced the body fuel filter. I am a mechanic, so I install a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail schrader valve. Press was 48-55 psi with key on and pump controlled by the PCM. When it did start it would stabilize at 40 + psi. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator anyway. It was the type with the snap ring holding in the regulator, mounted to the fuel rail bracket.
    When the problem is occurring the fuel pressure it at 50+ psi when the engine quits. It seams, either the computer is not opening the injectors, or the ignition quits after it starts. There are no fault codes or pending fault codes. The actron scanner shows, fuel sys 1 as closed
    fuel sys 2 as n/a. when the engine is running.
    When the car starts, it has a smooth idle, and awesome power.

    Could the PCM be defective, and not cause any latched faults?
    Vince

  • vincea51 Nov 10, 2010

    When I first starting having this problem, it was not always present. I replaced the ignition wires this spring, they were 10 years of age, although the mileage was only 10, 600 miles. I ran the car for four hours including on the highway. I added injector cleaner and dri gas. Then filled the tank with high test. The start and stall problem has been getting worst. As I stated, two weeks ago, I replaced the body mounted fuel filter, and tested the fuel injector pressure regulator at 48-55 psi. I replaced the regulator anyway, it was just a snap-ring and vacuum line involved.
    One the engine starts, it idles smooth, and has awesome power, The super charger works great. Note, although I don't think it's related, the information center, is intermittent in operation. it blinks 00. Then will start working, then stops.

    Vince P.S. I was an auto/truck mechanic till 1991. I have a Actron scanner and fuel press test kit.

  • vincea51 Nov 11, 2010

    This Pontiac GTP 3.8 super charged 10,700 miles has a remote start that never gave a reliable remote start. How are they disabled?

  • vincea51 Nov 12, 2010

    I tried checking for fault code present and pending on my actron scanner, while in the start-run seconds-and stalls; checking fuel pressure from the rail schrader valve when condition is present ( the starting, running 3 seconds then quitting ) it's 48-55 psi. When it does start and runs, pressure is 40 +psi. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator two weeks ago, along with the body mounted fuel filter. When the engine does stay running, it has a smooth idle, and awesome power, including full boost from supercharger. I also disabled the two switches, one for the remote start, and the other the horn alarm system ( a joke )
    If the PCM was causing the problem, I would think there would be a fault latched. Or if the crank and/or cam sensor's pulse signal were interrupted after 3 seconds running, there would be a fault also.

    Vince. I am an old school auto mechanic 1958 through 1992. But I am still an FAA licensed aircraft technician/inspector. I should place a spark tester on the ignition harness, and place it where I can watch the spark from inside the car. Than see if I loose spark when the engine first quits. I can rev it up once it starts, but it will quit after about 3 seconds, and quickly restart, just to quit again in 3 seconds. I do not know if a reconditioned PCM would be worth the attempt. Their about $ 150 to purchase, then swapping over the prom < if that is what they still call the custom chip.
    Vince

  • vincea51 Nov 12, 2010

    Last night I disabled the ( placed to off position ) two switches under the dash. One for the dealer installed horn alarm ( a joke ) and the dealer outsourced, remote start ( another unreliable joke, on me ) A hand crank in the front grill would be better. Yea, I am 70 and had a 1935 with an optional hand crank access in the radiator grill. that was the days of 450 foot lbs of engine torque. I put a 1959 Pontiac engine in my 35 ford, and could burn rubber from a third gear start. Of course you needed extra axles stored in your trunk. ...
    Vince

  • vincea51 Nov 12, 2010

    Hi tripletauto

    Here is the scenario in a nut-shell: Pontic 2000 GTP, 3.8 supercharged. Wife's car. She has been in for 10 years. The mileage is 10,700. The car was just started and moved one day a week, when I did the lawn. In the winter the car could sit for weeks. This spring, the problem started. I would reach in the car, ( as usual ) and turn the key; it always would start and run until I decided to shut it off. This spring it started to start alright, but run for just2-3 seconds then quit. After a few attempts, I would sit in the car, and first, listen for the electric fuel pump to run and shut down by the PCM. Then turn the key back on, hearing the pump run, then turn the key. The engine would start, if I opened the throttle quickly, it would accelerate, then die and stop. It would immediately start each time it dies. A scanner showed no present or pending faults. I installed my Actron fuel pressure gauge with the large schrader valve adapter, and watch the fuel pressure gauge, from it position near the windshield. with key on, the pressure would pump up to the 49-55 psi that is specs. I would try to start the engine about 5 times, by just turning the key, then on the 6th attempt, I would place the car into gear. Strangely it would stay running, with a smooth idle. I then shut off the engine and it would restart, I could restart it ten times in a row, it would start and stay running. The car could be taken out on the road and have awesome power, with no hesitation.
    The PCM could cause the injectors ( all of them it would have to be ) to stop firing at a 3 second run time. But how and why. The fuel pressure stays, pressurized during the shut down periods. The ignition quitting to all plugs at once, could cause this also, That is something I could not see though. Yet, no faults are stored.

    Viince. I' m an old school auto/truck mechanic. 1958 through 1992. But I am still a FAA licensed aircraft technician / inspector. Perplexing indeed. ...
    Again; the fuel pressure regulator, ( the type with the snap ring ) was replaced, along with the body mounted fuel filter. I also replaced the ignition wires, ( 10 years old ).
    Vince

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5 Answers

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  • Master
  • 1,450 Answers

So it will not idle? or will not stay running at all unless in gear?
battery go dead? you might need to drive it a little farther to relearn adapts if it just does not wanna idle.

Posted on Nov 11, 2010

  • TripleTauto
    TripleTauto Nov 12, 2010

    one possibility could be the ignition module this is under the coil packs. i have had some do similiar problems. this would drop spark at intermittent times. when it is running try tapping on pcm give it a smack with your hand if car dies when you do there is a fault in computer. not a real technical test but it works!!! but if not it could still be a problem with computer. I would lean towards the module that is what my gut feeling is.

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  • Pontiac Master
  • 1,051 Answers

If the car has a remote start installed, that may be the problem. My wife's car, a Ford, equiped with remote start shuts off automatically after 4 minutes if key is not inserted into ignition switch. I've been advised that the 4 minute shut-off can be adjusted to increase or decrease the run time. If your car has remote start try disabling it.
If no remote, I'd suspect the OBC is mistakenly sending a shut-down code after a few seconds then resetting itself and not sending the signal when you restart. You probably have the repair manual for the car and that should detail the shutdown sequence and how to reset. Wouldn't be great if we still had engines like 283s, 287s, 327s and my all time favorites 396s and 440s

Posted on Nov 10, 2010

  • Bob Korsu
    Bob Korsu Nov 10, 2010

    Have you been able to run a diagnostics and get the codes?

  • Bob Korsu
    Bob Korsu Nov 13, 2010

    Anoither thought, problems similar to yours may be the result of a problem with the passive alarm system.

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  • Pontiac Master
  • 6,826 Answers

OK, you'll need to purchase an OBD-II Scanner which handles 1996 and above vehicles up to 2005 or so. Actron makes a good unit and you can purchase an OBD-II Scanner for under $100 at Sears and Walmart if you want to do it yourself.

Otherwise, you could try Autozone or Advance Auto Parts which will scan your car's computer for free in many cases.

Many scanners have English explanations as to what might be causing the problem, along with the alphanumeric code.

The fuel filters in later model cars such as yours generally don't plug up that quickly due to later anti-corrosion treatments for gas tanks.

The fuel pressure you read seems to be ok.

Do you see a 'service engine soon' light on the dashboard, at all?

Good luck on this repair.

Posted on Nov 08, 2010

  • 6 more comments 
  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    Oh, that clears things up as far as the year.

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    It's 10 years old.
    I would get back to the basics for trying to diagnose.

    When it won't start, are you getting gas and spark?

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    I know the pressure is good, but if you spray some starting fluid into the intake, will it start up? If so, then you may have a computer that is not firing the injectors initially.

    I'm not sure why putting it in gear seems to make it work longer, unless the problem is in the harness flexing somewhere.

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    If there is no spark, then the CKP or crankshaft position sensor may be giving you problems.

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    The thing is, that it starts OK and runs for a few seconds. That tells me that everything is alright to start with as far as gas and spark.

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    Regarding the PCM,



    The following symptoms can be caused by an open, short to ground, short to power or excessive resistance in the power and ground circuits, data line communication malfunctions and /or component failure.

    Related Symptoms


    • No Crank
    • No Start condition
    • No communication with scan tools
    • No communications with other modules
    • MIL lamp illumination
    • Intermittent component functions
    • Poor fuel economy
    • High emissions
    • Drivability concerns (stalling, bucking, stumble etc.)
    • Charging system malfunctions

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    Airflow Meter/Sensor


    Operation

    Mass Airflow (MAF) sensors measure the weight and rate of air moving through a passage of a known volume or size. Typically, MAF sensors utilize hot wire or thick film technology. Signals generated may be analog or digital depending on manufacturer. As more air passes through the MAF sensor, the voltage or frequency increases proportionally. The PCM uses this information to calculate injector pulse-width and spark advance. Performance issues from MAF sensor failures range from no-start conditions to stalling, hesitation, stumble and improper air/fuel mixtures.

    A faulty MAF sensor due to loose connections, bad grounds, high resistance in the circuit, or opens in the circuit can cause the following symptoms.

    Related Symptoms


    • A no start condition
    • Stalls at idle
    • Surging of idle
    • Extended crank time when engine is cold
    • Hesitation
    • Stumble
    • Chuggle
    • Poor fuel economy


    Previous Next

  • Duane Wong
    Duane Wong Nov 08, 2010

    3.8L Engine

    To Remove:






    MAF Location





    1. Disconnect the battery ground cable.
    2. Remove the fuel injector cover.
    3. Disconnect the mass air flow (MAF) sensor electrical connector.
    4. Remove the MAF sensor mounting screws.
    5. Remove the MAF sensor from the throttle body.

    To Install:


    1. Position the MAF sensor on the throttle body.
    2. Install the MAF sensor mounting screws. Tighten the mounting screws to 27 in lb (3 Nm).
    3. Connect the mass air flow (MAF) sensor electrical connector.
    4. Install the fuel injector cover.
    5. Connect the battery ground cable.


    Previous Next

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  • Master
  • 2,299 Answers

Have you ran a diagnostics? What codes did it have, if any. If you are not getting any codes, then it is going to fuel related. If the car is getting codes let me know what they are, and we will see if we can't figure out what the problem is. If there are no codes. I would start by checking fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure is good, have you considered having bad gas?

Posted on Nov 09, 2010

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  • Master
  • 3,489 Answers

If it will start and run for hours, this is the relearn that the computer does. I'll bet if you begin to use the vehicle daily, the problem will seise to exist. As the battery voltage drops on the newer vehicles, it can mess with the ECM/PCM. Charge the battery in full, and go for a drive. Let me know how it does. Sorry to hear about the illness of your wife. Wishes for a speedy recovery.

Posted on Nov 08, 2010

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