Question about 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee

2 Answers

I was driving and i went to give my 1997 jeep grand cherkee gas and nothing happend. It was starting to stall, so i pulled over and stalled. i tried srarting it, and each time it would turn over but not completely start. When it did start, it would idle rough than stall. I finally got a tow home. That night about 4 hours later, i went outside, and it started..ideled fine , as if there was no problem at all. i was like this a miricle. The next day around 2 p..m i started it and drove it for about 4 hours running errands, turning it off and on all day.....No problems at all. I also put $20 gas during this time. Went back out at 7pm to pick up a pizza, and on the way home, the same thing happend, it started to stall and i pulled over. Then same thing, it would not start, and the longer i wait to start it, the longer it will idle, then it will finally idle rough again and stall. When i drove this jeep for 4 hours it ran mint as it always does, and now i have this problem. I left it overnight on side of road and i am about to go pick it up. Im sure its going to start and run good enough to get me home. Than later today, I will have this problem again. What is going on here?

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  • 9 more comments 
  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    So the chances of this being a fuel filter or fuel pump problem are slim? I will check these things that u said and get back to u. I dont have a code scanner but i guess i can take it somewhere. Does this problem sound major to you?

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    So what are the chances this is a fuel filter problem or fuel pump problem. When this thing starts cold and runs....it runs normal until 1/2 hours to 4 hours later , than it will stall and have trouble starting. WHERE IS THE FUEL FILTER ON THIS THING? 1997 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE LAREDO...4.0 INLINE SIX. please reply asap ...thanks ginko

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    Where is the fuel filter on a 1997 jeep grand cherokee laredo with 4.0 inline six. Can u describe in detail where it is, or if it may be the problem! I was driving yesterday and out of no where my jeep stalls at 45mph. I made it to the side of the road. i tried starting it, and it would turn over than stall right away. Or it would start and idle rough for 4 seconds than stall again. i finally got a tow home. Later that night around 4 hours later i went outside and started it. it was fine, idleing perfect, as if there was never a problem. The next day i started it and drove it for 4 hours running errands...no problems all day. later that night i went to pick up a pizza and it stalled on the way home...same problem ...could not start. i waited 3 hours, went back to it and it started fine, than it stalled 2 miles later...same problem...so thats where im at. When it sits for a long time it will start and run, but now the running time is getting shorter before it stalls. As much info would be appreciated, and please reply with my comments, the other guy gave me one answer in chinese, and never responded to me. please help

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    I apologize about your negative feedback. I do want to continue working with you as your answers seem sufficient. I did not get a reply which is why i switched, but i now got them and i do appreciate your help. I will check all these things. I must add that i ran out of gas last week.

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    Thank you for your help and sorry about the misunderstanding

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    Thanks ginko...your the best...Ill get to work.....I was just frustrated and impatient...really am sorry about the mix up...You are a huge help, and looks like Ill be busy today....thanks again:))

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 16, 2010

    Hi ginko...i believe you sent me the wrong scamatic.. There is no external filter anywhere in the rear according to the picture you sent me. It definitely is a fuel problem because i removed th intake and poured fuel into the the throttle body port and the jeep kept idleing evertime we poured a drop of gas in there. i dont understand how just running out of gas could of caused all these problems. Is the filter and the pump inside the tank....meaning i have to pay someone to drop the tank and replace this stuff. i have a 1997 jeep grand cherokee laredo with an inline 6....4.0 liter.. u said something about the filter in the engine...what do you mean and where. maybe u sent me the wrong scamatic by mistake, because there is no filter in the spot shown. Is there anything else i could try...I looked for vac leaks, all the wiring seems ok. i just disconnected the battery and i will connect it in 2 hours. any feedback would be appreciated. The check engine light is not on through all this

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 17, 2010

    Good morning ginko....Thank u dearly for the manuels and all the info.. i have a zj model which is 1997 jeep grand cherokee laredo 4 liter inline six. im aware the pump assembly is in the tank. I have a friend to help me drop the tank today. The manuel u sent me says xj...are they the same or it doesnt matter?

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 18, 2010

    Hi Ginko, Today i bought the whole fuel pump module assembly. Airtex part # E7103MN. This has the filter, pump, and presure regulater all in one. My buddy is coming by to drop the tank. I forgot to tell u that the other day it started when it was cold as usual, and ran at idle for 3 minuites or so, and when it was about to stall, i poured a little gasoline into the injector chamber on top of the throttle body( I had previously removed my air intake) and when i poured gas the engine started idleing and kept running. So I hope this 200 dollar part I just bought will fix this problem. To me it seems like its not getting gas. Whats your opinion based on what ive told u?

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 18, 2010

    OH Yea, throughout all this I still have no check engine light( and yes its working properly), and My buddy did a scan and i have no codes. must be fuel pump assembly?What do you think

  • st-modjeep97
    st-modjeep97 Oct 19, 2010

    problem fixed....It was the fuel pump, which was heating up and locking up causing it to stall. Replaced the whole module and now she idle and fires up no problem. Fillrd her up and put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank...Good as new now.....Thanks for all your help ginko...Take care...Michael

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2 Answers

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  • Jeep Master
  • 19,396 Answers

Hi ST.

Problems that occurr and disappear erratically are often caused by bad wiring.

In your case, if problem is stalling when idling and during startup, parts that are likely involved are those determining the balance of fuel/air mixture.

This kind of symptoms are commonly caused by weak wiring to MAP/MAF sensor (MAP on the 97 engine). This often results in error code stored.
If problem is only at cold, check IAT (idle air temp) sensor, also located in the air intake, check the idle air control valve.

Check crank sensor wiring harness. This is also common cause for the problem.

Check wiring to injectors and high voltage wires from distribution to spark plug. If any of these is the problem, then you will get a misfire code stored in ECM (main computer module).

If the car also drives very rough and is revving up and down in a weird way, check the EGR valve.

The fuel pump wiring may also be responsible. In that case you will get a lean mixture code if you do an error scan.

The two connectors to ECU must be tested, just in case. If instrument panel comes on and if there is no additional problem, this are hardly related to the problem.

If wiring is OK, check the vacuum system and try cranking with gas tank cap off. Vacuum system is tested using an hand tool gauge onvacuum lines while spraying card cleaner on the hoses (or heating them with a torch). If there is a leak, pressure will go up. A big leak will also do hissing noise, and will often result in a lean code when doing an OBD code scanning.

As first thing I would do a code scanning. This car is OBDII. The scan can be done for free at the nearest Autozone, or for a small fee at any garage.

If you get any OBDII code from the scan, report it here, so that we can isolate further the possible reason for the problem.

Regards.

Ginko.

Posted on Oct 16, 2010

  • 8 more comments 
  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    Re:"So the chances of this being a fuel filter or fuel pump problem are slim?"

    Fuel circulation problems are still possible, particularly those caused by a malfunctioning fuel pump. Let say that if problem was fuel circulation, you should get some trouble also after engine started. Also restricted fuel lines or fuel filter problems will result in a lean and misfire code. That is one of the reasons why I told you that the code scanning can help.

    A malfunctioning fuel pump is still possible, even if from description is a bit unlikely. More than fuel circulation, poor air from intake may cause the problem.

    More commonly, a bad wiring to MAP sensor will result in car control module not detecting how much air is getting into the intake, and injecting too little, or too much air into the cylinders. The effect is car not starting.

    As said the same problem can happen because of different faults. Ordinary maintenance, like checking and replacing fuel filter and air filter, may help to exclude factors that may aggravate the problem, but I do not think that this is the primary cause for the problem.

    Regarding the fuel pump. Replace it only if it is not pumping. Fuel pressure is tested using this gauge:Lisle 20300 .
    Fuel pressure on this engine is between 39 and 50 PSI, depending on engine and pump.


  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    Hi.


    There is a fuel filter located in the fuel tank. If that is responsible, then you get poor or no fuel pressure in fuel arriving to the engine. There is an external fuel fliter located under the left rear above the rear axle.If the problem was that, you would get poor fuel pressure, as said.

    I wanted also to remind that this is not the chat, and I am quite a slow writer, I like sipping my coffee between comments or fixing something in physical word. :)



    I am on your problem, and I will answer ASAP, no worries, but sometimes it takes a while before I check mail. When I am online, it takes at most 30/45 mins or so.

  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    Re:Where is the fuel filter on a 1997 jeep grand cherokee laredo with 4.0 inline six..

    Yes, I can describe it very well, and I can also provide schematics showing it in a picture, but that will take time. My help had been refused for no reason and I received a bad feedback while answering your questions. I am really sorry about that. Evidently I was wasting my time.

    On your request the question will be passed to other expert.

    Problem is unlikely fuel filter.

    Bye.

    G.

  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    Re:"the other guy gave me one answer in chinese, and never responded to me."

    I wrote in plain English and answered to all your comments. That is really unfair. There are humans giving away their free time to help you (at most we get a small share of what you pay). I think that respect is imprortant.

    The fuel pump is OK, at most you have a problem with fuel pump relay, but that is not the most common problem either.

    Bye.

    G.


  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    I got the last comment.

    If you did run out of gas, THEN it is possible blockage at gas tank fuel
    pump caused by debris in the fuel tank. Replacing the fuel pump in
    grand cheerokee is not the same as replacing fuel pump in a VW beetle. Also running out of fuel may cause trouble to injectors and electronic injection module.
    The electronic gets reset by disconnecting the battery for two minutes. Ensure that you have stereo code if needed.

    Before going for the pump check the filter in the engine.The one below is a pic.



    The fuel pump is accessed and replaced only after testing. Testing is done reading pressure for a while, possibly when the problem occurrs.

    Here procedure:


    Check operation of the valve: The electric fuel pump outlet has a oneway check valve to prevent fuel flow back into the tank and to maintain line pressure (engine warm) when pump is not operating. It is also used to keep the supply line full of gasoline when pump is not operating. When the vehicle has cooled down, fuel pressure may drop to 0 psi (cold fluid contracts), but liquid gasoline will remain in fuel supply line between the check valve and fuel injectors. Fuel pressure that has dropped to 0 psi on a cooled down vehicle (engine off) is a normal condition. When the electric fuel pump is activated, fuel pressure should immediately (1 - 2 seconds) rise to specification.

    Fuel systems are equipped with a fuel tank module mounted, combination fuel filter/fuel pressure regulator. The pressure regulator is not controlled by engine vacuum.

    WARNING: FUEL SYSTEM IS UNDER CONSTANT FUEL PRESSURE EVEN WITH THE ENGINE OFF. BEFORE DISCONNECTING FUEL LINE AT FUEL RAIL, THIS PRESSURE MUST BE RELEASED. REFER TO THE FUEL SYSTEM PRESSURE RELEASE PROCEDURE.

    1. Remove the protective cap located at fuel rail test port. Connect the 0 - 414 kPa (0-60 psi) fuel pressure gauge to test port pressure fitting on fuel rail
    2. Start and warm engine and note pressure gauge reading. Fuel pressure should be 339 kPa ± 34 kPa (49.2 psi ± 5 psi) at idle.
    3. If engine runs, but pressure is below 44.2 psi, check for a kinked fuel supply line somewhere between fuel rail and fuel pump module. If line is not kinked, but specifications for either the Fuel Pump Capacity, Fuel Pump Amperage or Fuel Pressure Leak Down Tests were not met, replace fuel pump module assembly.
    4. If operating pressure is above 54.2 psi, electric fuel pump is OK, but fuel pressure regulator is defective. Replace fuel filter/fuel pressure regulator. .
    5. Install cap to protect fuel rail test port.

    I have gotta go to collect wife and kids now.

    I sincerely hope some of the other experts can help. If troubles occurred after running out of fuel, then what you really need is probably a pressure test on fuel lines. Replacing the filter may also work. The pump keeps fuel under pressure all the time, if there is blockage, this may result in bubbles and gaps causing no start.

    Even If refused I can still post. If I see you are still in troubles and I am here I will eventually try to help. I was a bit upset about the Chineese thing, I understand that the askers may not realize how this kind of website work. I also understand technical jargon may result difficult to understand. No problem and no hard feelings.

    All the best and GL.

    Ginko.


  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    Hi.

    I see that the solution was accepted.

    In that case I am back on your solution.

    Please try replacing the filter, and do a code scan if possible. If that does not work I can still help you doing a pressure test, but you need to have some practice, there are safety issues involved.

    As said now I will go offline for a couple of hours I hope to get notification of your follow up comments.

    Best regards.

    Ginko.

  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 16, 2010

    That means that you only have the main filter in the fuel tank.

    I uploaded an extract from 98 model service manual below.

    Click below

    Click here to start download..

    If that does not work go from here.




  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 17, 2010

    Hi.

    The fuel pump assembly troubleshooting and removal is the same.

    Here the ZJ pump, filter is part 4, this is the schematic from part list database.


    By the way, here the ZJ documentation from service manual, I uploaded fuel system chapter:Click here to start download..

    If that does not work, click here and proceed from main Mafire download page.

    Regards.

    Ginko.

  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 18, 2010

    Hi.

    Test the fuel pump using a gauge. The gauge is about $25, and could have saved you some money.

    The gauge should read about 50 psi with engine on.

    I posted link to gauge online seller, but you can get it at any local part dealer.

    Also ensure you have replaced the pump relay, testing is at page 46 in manual.

    The injectors should also be tested, as I said, this was no easy repair.

    If pressure is OK, then you are back to code reading and the rest.

    The problem can aso be due to air stuck in the fuel lines.

  • Ginko
    Ginko Oct 19, 2010

    Hi Mike.

    Good to know the problem is fixed.

    At the end of the day the money you put in the whole pump assembly replacement was well spent. Well done.

    All the best.

    Ginko.

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  • Master
  • 1,874 Answers

Component check sequence:
1. Ignition system / ignition timing. When engine is stalled, see if spark plugs scintillate if another person cranking. If not, then ignition system is bad.
2. Fuel pressure. When engine is stalled, see if fuel flows correctly if another person cranking. If not, then check and replace the fuel filter if necessary. Also verify the fuel pump if it's electrical supply is all right, and replace the fuel pump if necessary.
3. Heated oxygen sensor control.
4. Engine Control Module (ECM) - supply / earth.
5. Throttle position (TP) sensor.
6. Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor.
7. Idle Air Control (IAC) valve.
The best idea is to scan the ECM memory by internal Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) stored, using a diagnostic scantool connected to the data link connector of the car, in order to find out the bad piece(s) which stalled the engine. You must find out the root cause of the engine stalling, and this is the reason for using a diagnostic scantool.

Posted on Oct 16, 2010

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