Question about 1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

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Do both cooling fans run at the same time, or are they staged?

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One cooling fan runs when the engine reaches a certain temp. The second cooling fan is designed to run when the a/c is turned on, providing more air flow throw radiator. However, it will cause no harm or damage if both fans run at the same time, with or without the a/c turned on.

Posted on Jul 13, 2010

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2.6 on 190e cooling fans not running overheats in traffic


In the old days the cooling fans were operated by a thermal switch mounted in the radiator or high in the engine. Sometimes the switch was a dual stage switch to operate one or two fans at high/low speed or to operate two fans in a sequence. The switch in these cases would provide a supply to an electronic control to provide the speeds or sequence. Mostly the thermal switch either switched on the fans directly or through a relay.

Both the fan motors and the switches tend to be very reliable and in the case of a problem are fairly simple to eliminate by independently testing them and checking the supply. This becomes easier when you have discovered which system your car uses. Begin by checking the fuse. Your vehicle handbook should provide that information.

Late model cars could have the cooling fans switched on by the engine management system so apart from the fuse and motors, wiring, etc. the diagnosis could be more complex.

Feb 03, 2016 | Mercedes-Benz E-Class Cars & Trucks

2 Answers

FANS WONT COME ON ,,ALL FUSES,RELAYS AND ELECTRIC FAN MOTORS ARE NEW,,THERMOSTAT IS GOOD,,WHERE IS ELECTRIC FAN TEMP SENSOR LOCATION


op
why not post symptoms first and not a barrage of parts.
must we decode that to a symptom,. kinda hard right.

I will not guess. what is wrong, nor what is not working on your car. now what fans you are talking about, up to 4 fans on cars.

cab blower fan (wild guess blower is ok) and so is HVAC, ?
radiator fans
Condenser fan.

my wild guess to , engine over heats?????????
if yes, the scan it first. no not last FIRST.
it dont work like you think its not a 1988 Samurai.
sorry,
on modern cars, they got smarter, the engine goes
gee the PCM knows water temp why have a fan temp regulator.
hark , now it dont. (saves cash on useless parts)
but has a relay , (well until you have my car and the relay is now 100% electronic, called a huge transistor)
we've used this tech in industry for years, but car makers just learning how still.
i digress. but evolution and history helps diagnosis.
what is there?

Ill look for you, ive posted this 100s of times
the book is 4 bucks to see online. the real deal
lets look now.
XL-7 (the dash matters big time)
answering for , overheats engine, and fans on RAD dead.
(some are staged, PCM brains... now. and also chain ops based on if A/C is on or not) facts.
first I see 2 fans... ok.
the next page shows nice block diagram of the fan system
yup, NOT Simple.

ill post those words for you.
"The engine cooling fan system consists of 2 electrical cooling fans and 3 fan relays. The relays are arranged in a series/parallel configuration that allows the engine control module (ECM) to operate both fans together at low or high speeds. The cooling fans receive positive voltage from the cooling fan relays which receive battery positive voltage from the underhood fuse block.
During low speed operation, the ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed cooling fan relay which is fan 1 relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the low speed fan relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and supplies battery positive voltage from the fan 1 fuse through the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the left cooling fan. The ground path for the left cooling fan is through the series/parallel relay which is fan 2 relay, and the right cooling fan. The result is a series circuit with both fans running at low speed.
During high speed operation the ECM supplies the ground path for the low speed fan relay through the low speed cooling fan relay control circuit. The ECM grounds the high speed fan relay, which is fan 3 relay, and the series/parallel relay, which is fan 2 relay through the high speed cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the series/parallel relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and provides a ground path for the left cooling fan. At the same time the high speed fan relay coil is energized closing the relay contacts and provides battery positive voltage from the fan 2 fuse 1 on the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the right cooling fan. During high speed fan operation, both engine cooling fans have their own ground path. The result is a parallel circuit with both fans running at high speed.
When the request for fan activation is withdrawn, the fan may not turn OFF until the ignition switch is moved to the OFF position or the vehicle speed exceeds approximately 16 km/h (10 mph). This is to prevent a fan from cycling ON and OFF excessively at idle.
end quote.

i bet you didnt scan it , like 99.9 % of all posters here dont.
DTC Descriptors
DTC P0480: Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit
DTC P0481: Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit
DTC P0691: Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit Low Voltage
DTC P0692: Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control Circuit High Voltage
DTC P0693: Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit Low Voltage
DTC P0694: Cooling Fan Relay 2 Control Circuit High Voltage
Diagnostic Fault Information

is the ECT showing overheat, yes no?
if yes, it must operate a fan or 2.
the book even covers all tests for fans dead, in a large truth table.
both the FSM and alldata.com have that, its no secret ,its published in 4 major places.

lets back up
if the engine coolant is low (no that side tank the engine and rad)
the ECT will lie. if that happens the fans may not come one
that is because the ECT is useless measuring air, for water.
that water must touch ECT for ECT to work.
this is FIRST
then scan the ECT does it show overheating, IT must if it IS overheating. fix that next if it lies to you,(IR gun in hand)

The system has staged fans.
i cant find the trip points in my crappyy online pages.
but is like 225f then 250f trips. is my guess...
about. if the engine over heats, check fuses first then scan it.
it will simply tell you why its bad.
eg, fan1 output dead.
or if you hot wire a fan and its dead, then it is.
(only on cars with non modulated fans,,hot wire them,else not.)

now the link to the 4 buck real book.
the non dash XL7 (my guess) you this pick yourself... cant see car.
https://suzukipitstopplus.com/Products/10182-2007-xl7-service-manual.aspx

this is how it really works
the ECU has software that decide trip points for fans.
hard coded, this is. based on how hot it is and if A/C is on not.
its way smarter than 1988 and better.
the DTC errors can see an open line, shorted to ground or stuck 12v.(runs all time error)
(tells you relay is good or not)

25839272-0kjd5huq4lpr130nt243wle5-3-0.jpg no scanner no joy , sorry, tis a fact.....

25839272-0kjd5huq4lpr130nt243wle5-3-2.jpg

Aug 27, 2015 | 2007 Suzuki XL-7

1 Answer

Tepiture gage showing HOT when stopping on red light. then goes down to normal when I start to drive. PLEASE HELP 1999 VT Commador


Sound like electric cooling fan is malfunctioning. It has some relays, and some cars have a dual fan setup in stages but that is where you want to look.

Anytime the temperature reaches 220 that fan should be running.

Here is a trick I learned. On many cars if you turn on the defrost it will automatically turn on the cooling fan. It's a good trick to get you home in a pinch-you gotta resolve this before it gets hot outside.

Jan 31, 2015 | Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

Radiator fan runs after ignition is off and key is removed


Does the fan motor shut off after a time or does it run your battery down?

If it runs for a time and shuts off, this is normal with a lot of cars today. It is a second stage cooling system that keeps cooling even after the motor is turned off. They all have either a temperature control or timer switch that turn them off.

If the motor runs till your battery is discharged then the temperature or timer control switch has gone bad and needs to be replaced.

Should you find that your car is overheating while in town, then the fan motor or sensor switch are usually what is at fault and will need to be evaluated and replaced accordingly.

Dec 27, 2013 | 2007 Jaguar X-Type 3.0 Sedan

1 Answer

Why does my 1997 mecedes benz e420 run hot when I turn on the air conditioner


Couple of reasons. You may need to have the Radiator backflushed to remove sediment. You also have an Electric cooling fan which may be malfunctioning. They (fans) often have more than 1 speed and high speed may be broken so it can not keep up with extreme heat.

Some fans use more than 1 relay to switch the fans and the second stage relay may be bad.

Overall, the A/C coil is placed in front of the Radiator and depends on airflow to function. This makes the air available to the Radiator much hotter so the Radiator is having a hard time cooling the engine. The Electric radiator fans kick up the airflow to help both systems out.

A dirty radiator, old antifreeze, etc. can affect performance.

I hope my solution is helpful. Radiator shops can service most Brands.

Jun 30, 2012 | 1997 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes Benz Sl Class

2 Answers

Why is my 2001 audi a6 is overheating 140,000 miles


Hi there:the Audi manual never talks about a 2 stage aux fan just that the aux fan runs with ac on and it can run with out ac on if there is an overheat issue on the coolant side where as the a4 info clearly states a 2 stage aux fan system that would lead me to think the early 4.2 did not use a 2 stage system. Your car is not overheating and boiling over out of the coolant tank it is showing a little hotter than what would be perfect but it is still in what Audi calls acceptable range. The whole coolant system is new I would start looking at your sensor and gage systems there is a coolant sensor in the rad but that is most likely new if they replaced the rad. The gage uses a temp sensor on the engine for the gage I would replace that sensor and test the gage with a resistance input tool we have at the dealer. Could be a gouge or the wiring to it. There is a coolant fan module that could be defective if your sure there was a two speeds to the aux fan.


3_29_2012_12_55_02_pm.jpg

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Mar 29, 2012 | 2001 Audi A6

1 Answer

When idling my jeep overheats. The cooling fan is running and it speeds up when temperature goes up. The temperature gets close to 260 degrees and the engine tries to stall. when I start moving it cools...


At idling speed an engine does build up a lot of heat and the cooling fan will kick in. In slow moving traffic or traffic jams the temperature gauge can touch the red - particularly on hot days. The reason it cools down when you start moving is because of the air flow through the radiator.

Presumably there are no leaks from the cooling system otherwise you would have mentioned it. In normal circumstances the fan will not be running as you are driving at speed, as the air-flow through the radiator is sufficient to cool things. The fan only kicks in to get rid of excess heat - and this usually occurs at idling speed or after you have parked the car.

If the fan is running all the time as you drive, this points to either a fault in the fan switch, or the car is running too hot. presumably in normal driving the fan isn't running and the temperature gauge reads normal?

It is common - in stationary traffic many cars overheat (particularly big engined models) try to stall and 'cut out'. Restarting can be difficult until the engine cools down.

Is your car overheating in normal driving conditions or just at idle speed? Overheating in normal driving conditions can be caused by things like a failing water pump, blocked radiator, collapsed hose, faulty thermostat or, in the worst case scenario, cylinder head problems.

Overheating at idling speed is 'common'. Check your coolant level. If your car isn't using/losing coolant then there probably is no major problem. You can flush out the cooling system and refill with new coolant - and also check your radiator. Are the cooling fins crumbling with age? Or maybe they're partly clogged with insects and debris from the road? A blast with a hosepipe wil sort that out ..

The question is how much does your car overheat in normal driving? If it doesn't .. it appears as though you have nothing to worry about as such. Most cars have 2 speed fans... the 2nd faster stage kicks in at some point dependant on engine temperature. Perfectly normal.

Aug 14, 2010 | 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee

1 Answer

Radiator fan


In most cases on all vehicles. No cooling fans operate until needed. This is a two step process. First your engine needs to reach operating temperature. After this, it closes a sensor on your engine to trigger a relay. This relay turns on the fan. If your fan runs all the time, either the relay is stuck closed or the sending unit is bad. Some cars have a two stage system, if one fan is not enough, it turns on another. If you turn on your AC, It makes the fan come on immediately to pull enough air through the condenser. I have seen many times people jump around this circuit and make their fan run as soon as the key is on. This will hurt your gas mileage as the alternator has to work harder.

Mar 10, 2010 | 1997 Toyota RAV4

1 Answer

1994 9000C Runs hot


Could be the fan thermoswitch. The thermoswitch, if there is one*, is located on the lower portion of the radiator just in front of the turbo outlet pipe. Here is a picture.
You may also have one of the fan relays failing. (On some cars, there were two relays, one for low speed and one for high). Here is a picture.
For general diagnostics of the cooling system, go here.
2 stage cooling fan wiring diagram here.
This also will tell you where to find other components to check, like the fan speed resistor, and provide other diagnostic checks.

Oct 16, 2008 | 1994 Saab 9000

8 Answers

My 2005 mazda mpv's fan does not shut off after the ignition is turned off. I must turn the ignition back to the starting position and then off again or the fan will continue to run for several minutes...


I have a 2003 MPV with the same problem. There was a recall in 2004 to replace the fan controller module, which apparently would fail regularly. I had mine replaced under the recall although there were no symptoms at the time. Now it appear that the replacement has failed, but I've already used the recall and you can only do it once. Even though your warranty is up the recall still applies if your car is of the model that qualifies. Call your dealer, and he can tell you if you are eligible. It is almost certainly the problem. I don't care how you drive or what the temperature is, your fan shouldn't run immediately after starting or run for more than a couple of minutes after you shut it off.

Sep 29, 2008 | Mazda MPV Cars & Trucks

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