Question about 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

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Engine Surging when not pulling hard and with cruise engaged

Car has manual 5 speed and when holding the engine at a steady state ~3000rpm it continously pulses or surges. Climbing hills do not have this surging effect but going downhill with cruise engaged causes this in a dramatic way. Fuel economy has been reduced at least 200km on this last tank. Puff of smoke slightly on cold start and when you step on it hard, I thought that was typical diesel behavior. Any help would be appreciated.

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  • CarpeD Jun 09, 2010

    After changing the MAF there was significant improvement but still had surging with the Cruise engaged. Removed the EGR and found intake and EGR to be blocked off to 3/8". Cleaned it all out and reassembled everything. I can't remember when it had so much smooth power.

    Thanks guys,
    J

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  • Master
  • 862 Answers

Possible mass air flow sensor fault, dissconnect it and see if it improves slightly to confirm or have scan for trouble codes

Posted on May 26, 2010

Testimonial: "Thanks I did disconnect the MAF and it immediately helped. There is still some surgin but about 1/10th of before. I ordered the MAF should have it in a few days. Thx J"

  • Jim Jun 09, 2010

    Glad you got to the bottom of your problem, without driving the vehicle or hearing it running it's quite difficult to give an exact diagnosis, but I shared your thoughts on the unlikleyhood of the pump being the problem



    happy motoring



    Regards



    Jim

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  • Volkswagen Master
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HAVE THE INJECTION PUMP TESTED, I THINK THE PROBLEM LIES THERE.

Posted on May 26, 2010

Testimonial: "Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try the MAF first then if surging still exists I'll look at the injection pump. I'm hesitant to go to the pump because the car has only 109,000Km and it should be good for 250-300K I would think? Thoughts? Cheers, J "

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1 Answer

Cruise control won't engage


cruise controls are governed by 5 settings and sensors
one is engine rpms
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brake pedal switch
clutch pedal switch ( VSS if auto)
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any one of these not lined up will not allow the cruise control to work

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Car surging


Is the car equipped with the Automatic Transmission?
If so, read on.
Otherwise skip to the end and answer some questions.

POSSIBLE SCENARIO:
I have observed a condition where my car surges slightly when the torque-converter clutch (TCC) cycles between lock and unlock when driving on an uphill grade.
First some basics and history that will explain why the TCC is used.

Engine, Torque Converter, TCC, and Transmission relationship--
The TCC allows for a solid connection between the engine and transmission which allows the input to the transmission to rotate at the same speed as the engine.
Without a TCC, there is slippage between the engine and automatic transmission. The slippage is greatest at low engine RPM. That is what allows the engine to run with the automatic transmission in gear, like when you first shift into gear or stop at a stop sign. When the throttle pedal is depressed, the engine RPM begins to increase and the torque converter begins to slip less and less the more the engine RPM increases. The car moves. But even at cruising speeds the torque converter slips slightly. Engine RPM is greater than transmission input RPM, which is realized as slight decrease in fuel efficiency.
When acceleration is complete and a constant speed is being maintained, the engine power output is reduced to the point where the TCC can engage and eliminate any slippage between the engine and transmission. If the car has a tachometer the engagement of the TCC can be verified when a slight reduction in engine RPM observed without a corresponding change in vehicle speed.
One method used to test the operation of the TCC is as follows:
Find a flat section of road where it is safe to perform the test.
Reach a steady speed and keep the gas pedal depressed with one foot. While observing the tachometer (or listening for an increase in engine RPM), with the other foot depress the brake pedal enough to activate the break light switch but not enough to engage the brakes. When the brake light switch activates, the TCC receives a signal to disengage. With the gas pedal being held steady, release the brake pedal and the engine RPM should decrease when the TCC engages.
Old cars with Automatic Transmissions did not use a TCC. I believe the TCC was put in use in an attempt to increase fuel economy.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH SIMILAR SYMPTOMS
The condition that causes that issue on my car is this:
- A slight uphill grade increases the load on the engine.
The car tends to gradually slow and it is necessary to depress the gas pedal to maintain speed.
- Depressing the throttle pedal (manually, or automatically with cruise control engaged) signals the torque converter clutch to unlock when the load increases slightly. (A more drastic load increase would signal the Transmission to downshift to a lower gear.) The corresponding increase in engine RPM and output is enough to compensate for the reduction in speed. When the vehicle speed, engine RPM, and throttle position stabilize to the point that the TCC will engage and the engine RPM will reduce in correspondence with TCC engagement. Now, if the road conditions have not changed, power output is not enough to maintain vehicle speed. With the increased load caused by full engagement between engine and transmission, and the cycle (surging) repeats itself until the road conditions change.

Does that help?
If not:

QUESTIONS
Please define the symptoms.
What are the road conditions when the surge occurs? (A slight uphill grade?)
What is the frequency of the surge?
Does the engine power output have a noticeable surge?
Is there a speed change related to the surge?
Does the tachometer move up and down with little or no change in vehicle speed?
Are all instrument indication in the normal range?
What else has changed?

Good luck!

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How to get Drive cycle



1. The testing has to start with the vehicle under 122 degrees F. Start the engine and idle for 2.5 minutes in Drive (auto) Neutral (MAN) A/C and rear defogger ON.

2. A/C OFF, accelerate to 55 MPH at 1/2 throttle and then 3 minutes of steady state cruise at 55 MPH.

3. Clutch engaged (MAN) no braking decelerate to 20 MPH.

4. Accelerate to 55-60 MPH at 3/4 throttle and 5 minutes of steady state cruise at 55-60 MPH.

5. Decelerate, no braking to end the drive cycle.

In some cases the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) will go into a logic lock not letting the readiness monitors run. Removing the battery cables and touching the two together will normally take care of the logic lock condition.

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and by country, in fact, vastly so.
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Engine coolant temp must be below 70c (158f) before starting the engine for either the first or second trip
The fuel level should be less than 1/2 full
First trip:
Start engine, idle for at least 1.5 minutes
Drive 3 minutes, hold b/f schdl: 1.5-2.0 msec, selector lever "3rd" eng rpm 1,800-2,000 A/C switch:ON Hold the recommended b/f schdl range. Allow road speed to vary as necessary.
Drive at 55-65 mph for 1.5 min b/f schdl 2.0-3.2 msec, selector lever "5th" Engine rpm 2,200-3,000
IGN "off" for at least 10 seconds (not more than 5 min)
Dive at 50-60 mph for 3 minutes Selector lever "4th" keep engine speed above 3,000 rpm Allow speed to vary if necessary. Do not decelerate for more than 3 consecutive seconds. A/C switch ON.
Drive at a steady state cruise of 53-58mhp b/f schdl more than 1.8 msec selector lever "5th" eng rpm 2,400-2,600
Downshift to "4th" and decel more than 5 seconds without breaking, then idle for 1 minute.
Drive two minutes b/f schdl less than 2.0 msec Accelerate to 41 mph, decelerate to 34 mph, accelerate to 41mph. Do not completely release the accelerator. A/C switch off.
Idle 1 minute in park or neutral
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End of first trip. Turn the key off the begin the second trip.
Second trip:
Start engine, idle for at least 1.5 minutes
Drive 3 minutes, hold b/f schdl: 1.5-2.0 msec, selector lever "3rd" eng rpm 1,800-2,000 A/C switch:ON Hold the recommended b/f schdl range. Allow road speed to vary as necessary.
Drive at 55-65 mph for 1.5 min b/f schdl 2.0-3.2 msec, selector lever "5th" Engine rpm 2,200-3,000
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