Cold engine knock after timing belt and water pump replaced
I just had the timing belt and water pump and valve cover gasket replaced on my 2001 honda crv. Now , when I start the engine it sounds like a deisel until it warms up. They also replaced the serpentine belt. The knocking is coming from the side of the engine where the serpentine belt runs. It never had any kind of unusual engine noise before. Can you help??
Took it back in because it was sounding worse and worse and they wanted me to wait a week. After about an hour, I'm told that the tensioner IS bad and they want another $450 to fix it. I left. There was no way they could have inspected the tensioner. They offered to split the labor cost with me after I complained. I took it to a REAL service department today. I had barely settled into the waiting area when the service adviser asked me to come with him because he wanted me to see the problem. The timing belt was about a third of the way off!!! The edge was worn off and it had worn through the housing in numerous places so it had to be replaced. The tech had left the piece (washer?) off that holds the belt in place. There was also a ground that was unattached and a couple of other nuts and bolts that weren't where they were supposed to be. The oil seals they charged me to replace had not been replaced. I don't know what bothered me more - the fact that more damage is done and could have resulted is serious engine damage or the lies I was told to my face at the other dealership. I've got photos and parts from today and will do whatever it takes to get all of my money back. The only thing salvageable were the drive belts and the water pump. How many other people are being taken like this.Took it back in because it was sounding worse and worse and they wanted me to wait a week. After about an hour, I'm told that the tensioner IS bad and they want another $450 to fix it. I left. There was no way they could have inspected the tensioner. They offered to split the labor cost with me after I complained. I took it to a REAL service department today. I had barely settled into the waiting area when the service adviser asked me to come with him because he wanted me to see the problem. The timing belt was about a third of the way off!!! The edge was worn off and it had worn through the housing in numerous places so it had to be replaced. The tech had left the piece (washer?) off that holds the belt in place. There was also a ground that was unattached and a couple of other nuts and bolts that weren't where they were supposed to be. The oil seals they charged me to replace had not been replaced. I don't know what bothered me more - the fact that more damage is done and could have resulted is serious engine damage or the lies I was told to my face at the other dealership. I've got photos and parts from today and will do whatever it takes to get all of my money back. The only thing salvageable were the drive belts and the water pump. How many other people are being taken like this.
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Re: Cold engine knock after timing belt and water pump...
Hi, this could be because the cam timing is a notch or 2 out. The fact that it quiets down when the engine heats up is because the timing is retarded as the engine reaches operating temperature. You will have to look at the cam timing and make sure that they have done it correctly. If that is fine it might be that they have dropped something, like a bolt or nut into the valve cover when it was removed.
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knocking is a big thing, its a cry for help. can be minor to horrific knocking parked? or only driving. in neutal or park? knocking hot block, or cold block or both? at what RPM>/ only real oil pressure gauge works, not the idiot lamp when the lamp comes on at 3-5psi, the war was lost. my 96 makes 55psi cold just cranking, want a video of that? find the knocking first.
if can ,be knocked , parked.? id check oil pressure. real. use a $5 stethoscope. find it. drop all belts. to see if an accessory device knocks. (5min test max cold to start, yes, water pump dead) PS/AC/ALT dead too. still knock> listen at valve cover. coming from there. is the timing belt is old over 60k thy all shard and some knock load hitting that cover, it a for sure thing, skipping the 60k mile service point, exhast header collerctor fange gasket , bad, allowing bang band bang as the 2 flanges pound themselves to death. the top of the engine, see induction pips. (AIR) those mounts for sure can bang away, bolts missing.
knocking: 1 overheated the engine so bad its pinging? knocks up hills? 2: say exaclty when and not you get the knocks.
Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions section.
Drain the cooling system.
Relieve the fuel system pressure.
Remove or disconnect the following: Negative battery cableIntake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor connectorPositive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve and hoseAir intake assemblyUpper radiator hoseAccessory drive beltExhaust front pipeAlternator and bracketsCrankshaft Position (CKP) sensor connectorKnock sensor connectorHeater hosesWater bypass hoseFuel linesEvaporative Emissions (EVAP) valve connectorCanister hoseIntake manifoldEngine wiring harness connectors at left rear of the engine compartmentPower steering pump pressure switch connectorFront coverSpark plugs and wiresCamshaft Position (CMP) sensorValve coverTiming belt. Refer to the Timing Belt unit repair section.Timing belt idler pulleysTiming belt rear coverOil pressure switch connectorCamshaftsCylinder head. Remove the bolts in reverse of the tightening sequence.
Negative battery cableIntake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor connectorPositive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve and hoseAir intake assemblyUpper radiator hoseAccessory drive beltExhaust front pipeAlternator and bracketsCrankshaft Position (CKP) sensor connectorKnock sensor connectorHeater hosesWater bypass hoseFuel linesEvaporative Emissions (EVAP) valve connectorCanister hoseIntake manifoldEngine wiring harness connectors at left rear of the engine compartmentPower steering pump pressure switch connectorFront coverSpark plugs and wiresCamshaft Position (CMP) sensorValve coverTiming belt. Refer to the Timing Belt unit repair section.Timing belt idler pulleysTiming belt rear coverOil pressure switch connectorCamshaftsCylinder head. Remove the bolts in reverse of the tightening sequence.
To install:
Fig. Cylinder head torque sequence-2.2L (VIN D) engine
NOTE
Use new cylinder head bolts for assembly.
Install the cylinder head with a new gasket. Tighten the bolts in sequence as follows: Step 1: 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)Step 2: Plus 90 degreesStep 3: Plus 90 degreesStep 4: Plus 90 degrees
Step 1: 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)
Step 2: Plus 90 degrees
Step 3: Plus 90 degrees
Step 4: Plus 90 degrees
Install or connect the following: CamshaftsOil pressure switch connectorTiming belt rear coverTiming belt idler pulleys. Tighten the bolts to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).Timing beltValve coverCMP sensorSpark plugs and wiresFront coverPower steering pump pressure switch connectorEngine wiring harness connectors at left rear of the engine compartmentIntake manifoldCanister hoseEVAP valve connectorFuel linesWater bypass hoseHeater hosesKnock sensor connectorCKP sensor connectorAlternator and bracketsExhaust front pipeAccessory drive beltUpper radiator hoseAir intake assemblyPCV valve and hoseIAT sensor connectorNegative battery cable
CamshaftsOil pressure switch connectorTiming belt rear coverTiming belt idler pulleys. Tighten the bolts to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).Timing beltValve coverCMP sensorSpark plugs and wiresFront coverPower steering pump pressure switch connectorEngine wiring harness connectors at left rear of the engine compartmentIntake manifoldCanister hoseEVAP valve connectorFuel linesWater bypass hoseHeater hosesKnock sensor connectorCKP sensor connectorAlternator and bracketsExhaust front pipeAccessory drive beltUpper radiator hoseAir intake assemblyPCV valve and hoseIAT sensor connectorNegative battery cable
Fill the cooling system.
Start the engine and check for leaks.
Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions Section.
Drain the cooling system.
Relieve the fuel system pressure.
Remove or disconnect the following:
Negative battery cableIntake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor connectorPositive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve and hoseAir intake assemblyUpper radiator hoseAccessory drive beltExhaust front pipeAlternator and bracketsCrankshaft Position (CKP) sensor connectorKnock sensor connectorHeater hosesWater bypass hoseFuel linesEvaporative Emissions (EVAP) valve connectorCanister hoseIntake manifoldEngine wiring harness connectors at left rear of the engine compartmentPower steering pump pressure switch connectorFront coverSpark plugs and wiresCamshaft Position (CMP) sensorValve coverTiming belt. Refer to the Timing Belt procedure.Timing belt idler pulleysTiming belt rear coverOil pressure switch connectorCamshaftsCylinder head. Remove the bolts in reverse of the tightening sequence.
To install:
Fig. Cylinder head torque sequence-2.2L (VIN D) engine
NOTE
Use new cylinder head bolts for assembly.
Install the cylinder head with a new gasket. Tighten the bolts in sequence as follows:
Step 1: 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)
Step 2: Plus 90 degrees
Step 3: Plus 90 degrees
Step 4: Plus 90 degrees
Install or connect the following:
CamshaftsOil pressure switch connectorTiming belt rear coverTiming belt idler pulleys. Tighten the bolts to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).Timing beltValve coverCMP sensorSpark plugs and wiresFront coverPower steering pump pressure switch connectorEngine wiring harness connectors at left rear of the engine compartmentIntake manifoldCanister hoseEVAP valve connectorFuel linesWater bypass hoseHeater hosesKnock sensor connectorCKP sensor connectorAlternator and bracketsExhaust front pipeAccessory drive beltUpper radiator hoseAir intake assemblyPCV valve and hoseIAT sensor connectorNegative battery cable
Timing beltAlternator brace from the
water pumpTiming belt rear coverWater pump mounting
boltsWater pump, gasket and
O-ring
To install:
Install or connect the following:
New O-ring on the water inlet
pipe. Coat the O-ring with water or coolant. Do not allow oil or other grease to
contact the O-ring.Water pump to the engine
block, with new gasket. Torque the mounting bolts to 10 ft. lbs. (13 Nm)Alternator brace on the water
pump. Torque the brace pivot bolt to 17 ft. lbs. (24 Nm).Timing belt rear coverTiming beltRemaining components
Refill the engine with coolant.
Connect the negative battery cable, start the engine and check for
leaks.
Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the precautions section.
Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Drain the engine coolant.
Remove or disconnect the following:
Wiper and blade assembly
Top cowl seal and panel
Window washer hoses, from the ventilator louvers
Left and right ventilator louvers
Heater air duct
Timing belt
Mark the left and right camshaft pulleys with a touch of paint.
Remove or disconnect the following:
NOTE
Be sure not to mix up the pulleys. Right and left camshaft pulleys boltsPulleys from the engine
No. 2 idler pulley by removing the bolt
3 clamps and engine wire from the rear timing belt cover
6 No. 3 timing belt cover-to-engine bolts
Water pump nuts/bolts
Water pump and gasket from the engine
Fig. Exploded view of the components to gain access to the water
pump-3.0L engine
Fig. Exploded view of the water pump and related components-3.0L
engine
To install:
Check that the water pump turns smoothly. Also check the air hole
for coolant leakage.
Apply liquid sealer to the gasket, water pump and engine block.
Install or connect the following:
NOTE
After tightening the bolt, be sure the idler pulley moves
smoothly.
NOTE
Be sure to align the knock pin hole on the camshaft pulley with
the knock pin on the camshaft.
NOTE
Be sure to align the knock pin hole on the camshaft pulley with
the knock pin on the camshaft.
Water pump, using a new gasket. Tighten the nuts/bolts to 53 inch
lbs. (6 Nm).
Rear timing belt cover. Tighten the 6 bolts to 74 inch lbs. (9
Nm).
Engine wire with the 3 clamps to the rear timing belt cover
No. 2 idler pulley. Tighten the bolt to 32 ft. lbs. (43 Nm).
Right-hand camshaft pulley, with the flange side
outward.
Tighten the camshaft bolt to 65 ft. lbs. (88 Nm), using the
removal tools
Left-hand camshaft pulley, with the flange side
inward.
Tighten the camshaft bolt to 94 ft. lbs. (125 Nm), using the
removal tools
Timing belt
Fill the engine coolant.
Install or connect the following:
Heater air duct
Left and right ventilator louvers
Window washer hoses to the ventilator louvers
Top cowl seal and panel
Wiper and blade assembly
Negative battery cable
jack up on stands, remove LF wheel and water shield. disconnect battery, buy a crankshaft pulley holding tool from OTC, swing p.s. reservoir out of the way, remove both accesory belts, front motor mount, valve cover, dipstick and tube, crank pulley, timing belt cover, set engine at TDC #1 (align marks), remove nut on tensioner shaft to loosen both belts, remove the belts and tensioners (replace all), replace water pump NOW, install timing pulley, reinstall spring (use dipstick tube bolt to hold back the timing pulley with the slot in the bracket on the pulley until the belt is installed), install balance shaft belt, pulley and spring, once tensioned rotate engine once and retension by loosening the nut and retightening. Make sure the marks are still lined up, and reinstall everything. New valve cover gasket set with silicone in the corners. fill with coolant and bleed system once finished. it is a good idea to also change all the oil seals while you are in there.
Sometimes you must install the timing cover temporarily with the crank pulley to ensure you are at true Top Dead Center line up the notch on the pulley with the pointer on the timing belt cover or pointer on crankshaft cover I had a problem with a dual cam Honda in which the marks on the engine block where slightly off. you must ensure that both intake valves and exhaust valves are shut one cylinder #1 by turning the cams in the appropriate direction, from your description of the situation it sounds like when it runs poorley it is off by one tooth, when you move forward a tooth it runs but poorly make sure you are moving both cams if equipped with dual cam, both cams should be in the exact same visual location in other words all valves completly shut, be careful not to move lower shaft after lining up the crank pulley to cover pointer marks, after resetting turn the engine over two full turns then recheck all markers.
Let me know if you cannot see diagrams(happens sometimes) or if you have any questions
Just to make sure. I assume that you are seeing coolant leakage from around the water pump assembly.
Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Place fender covers on the aprons.
Drain the cooling system.
Remove the accessory drive belts.
Remove the timing belt cover.
Use a wrench on the crankshaft pulley to rotate the engine so No. 1 piston is on TDC of the compression stroke.
Turn the engine only in the direction of normal rotation. Backward rotation will cause the timing belt to slip or lose teeth.
Loosen the belt tensioner attaching bolts, then secure the tensioner over as far as possible.
Pull
the belt from the camshaft, tensioner, and water pump sprocket. Do not
remove it from, or allow it to change its position on, the crankshaft
sprocket.
WARNINGDo
not rotate the engine with the timing belt removed or serious engine
damage could occur. The 1.3L and 1.6L engines are of the "interference
type," meaning it is possible for the valves to contact the pistons if
their reciprocation is not carefully timed and controlled. An engine
allowed to spin freely without the timing belt could bend valves and
scuff pistons almost instantly.
Remove the camshaft sprocket.
Remove the rear timing cover stud.
Remove the heater return tube hose connection at the water pump inlet tube.
Remove the water pump inlet tube fasteners and the inlet tube and gasket.
Unfasten the water pump to the cylinder block bolts and remove the water pump and its gasket.
Fig. 1: If equipped, remove the cover from the water pumpFig. 2: Unfasten and remove the heater return tube hose connection at the water pump inlet tube nuts from the studsFig. 3: Location of the water pump mounting bolts-1.9L engineFig. 4: After unfastening the water pump retaining bolts, remove the water pump from the engine compartmentFig. 5: If you are reusing the old water pump, remove the gasket ...Fig. 6: ... and carefully clean both of the water pump mating surfaces using a gasket scraperTo install:
Make sure the mating surfaces on the pump and the block are clean.
Using
a new gasket and sealer, install the water pump. Tighten the bolts to
30-40 ft. lbs. (40-55 Nm) on 1981-87 models, or to 15-22 ft. lbs.
(20-30 Nm) on 1988-90 models. Make sure the pump impeller is able to
turn freely.
Install the water pump inlet tube and the inlet tube gasket and fasteners.
Install the rear timing cover stud. Install the heater return tube hose connection at the water pump inlet tube.
Install the camshaft sprocket.
Install the belt from the camshaft, timing belt tensioner, and water pump sprocket.
Fig. 7: Radiator hose-to- engine mounted water pump inlet tube-gasoline enginesFig. 8: Exploded view of common water pump inlet tube and related fasteners-non-A/C typeFig. 9: Exploded view of water pump and related components-1988-90 1.9L engineDo not rotate the engine with the timing belt removed.
Tighten the belt tensioner attaching bolts, then secure the tensioner over as far as possible.
Install the timing belt cover.
Install the accessory drive belts.
Refill the cooling system and reconnect the negative battery cable.
There are two slots in the valve cover right by the cam shaft sprocket that have to be honda bonded or black rtv. look closely at the valve cover right above the gasket underneath the timing belt cover. Hope that helps.
Took it back in because it was sounding worse and worse and they wanted me to wait a week. After about an hour, I'm told that the tensioner IS bad and they want another $450 to fix it. I left. There was no way they could have inspected the tensioner. They offered to split the labor cost with me after I complained. I took it to a REAL service department today. I had barely settled into the waiting area when the service adviser asked me to come with him because he wanted me to see the problem. The timing belt was about a third of the way off!!! The edge was worn off and it had worn through the housing in numerous places so it had to be replaced. The tech had left the piece (washer?) off that holds the belt in place. There was also a ground that was unattached and a couple of other nuts and bolts that weren't where they were supposed to be. The oil seals they charged me to replace had not been replaced. I don't know what bothered me more - the fact that more damage is done and could have resulted is serious engine damage or the lies I was told to my face at the other dealership. I've got photos and parts from today and will do whatever it takes to get all of my money back. The only thing salvageable were the drive belts and the water pump. How many other people are being taken like this.
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