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Well ronnie do you know how to do automotive electrical testing with a volt meter ? How to read an understand a wiring diagram ? Would think not to be a relay problem because other thing's would not work as well ! More then likely a loose ground or something on that order ! Plus you must mean Ignition . 1 relay , because there isn't a eng.1 relay . Ign. 1 relay powers the PCM - engine computer , fuel injectors , the TAC - electronic throttle control module . Do the instrument cluster lights still work when the gauges quit ? Looking at power distribution diagram I see a engine 1 fuse but has nothing to do with the instrument cluster . Supply's B+ voltage to the maf sensor , EVAP system , CAM sensor , IAT sensor , fuel pump relay ! Could be a communication problem on class 2 data bus . All the modules on the vehicle share information on the class 2 bus . The gauges get thier info from the PCM over this data network !
Engine Coolant Temperature Gauge
The IPC displays the engine coolant temperature as determined by the PCM. The IPC receives a class 2 message from the PCM indicating the engine coolant temperature. The engine coolant temperature gauge defaults to 75°C (160°F) or below when:
• The PCM detects a malfunction in the engine coolant temperature sensor circuit.
• The IPC detects a loss of class 2 communication with the PCM.
The IPC displays the fuel level as determined by the PCM. The IPC receives a class 2 message from the PCM indicating the fuel level percent. The fuel gauge defaults to empty if:
• The PCM detects a malfunction in the fuel level sensor circuit.
• The IPC detects a loss of class 2 communications with the PCM.
When the fuel level is less than a pre-determined value, the low fuel indicator illuminates.
Reviewing the fuel system description will further explain how the system functions. Refer to:
The IPC displays the vehicle speed based on the vehicle speed signal from the PCM. The IPC receives the vehicle speed signal via a discreet wire. The IPC uses the vehicle speed signal circuit (4000 pulses/mile) from the PCM in order to calculate the vehicle speed. The speedometer defaults to 0 km/h (0 mph) if a malfunction in the vehicle speed signal circuit (4000 pulses/mile) exists.
The IPC displays the engine speed based on the engine speed signal from the PCM. The IPC receives the engine speed signal from the PCM via a discreet wire. The IPC uses the engine speed signal circuit (2 pulses/engine revolution) from the PCM in order to calculate the engine speed. The tachometer defaults to 0 rpm if a malfunction in the engine speed signal circuit (2 pulses/engine revolution) exists.
Transmission Temperature Gauge
The IPC displays the transmission temperature as determined by the PCM. The IPC receives a class 2 message from the PCM indicating the transmission temperature. The transmission temperature gauge will default to 40°C (100°F) or below if:
• The PCM detects a malfunction in the transmission temperature sensor circuit.
• The IPC detects a loss of class 2 communications with the PCM.
The IPC displays the system voltage as detected at the ignition 1 input of the IPC. When the engine is ON, the gauge should be between 10 and 16 volts.
The only one that has a hard wired sensor is the oil pressure gauge.
Engine Oil Pressure Gauge
The IPC uses the engine oil sensor signal to determine the engine oil pressure. The oil pressure sensor signal circuit is hard-wired to the IPC. The engine oil pressure sensor signal to the IPC is a variable resistance ranging from 0-90 ohms. A sensor resistance of 1 ohms will display as 0 psi (0 kPa) and a resistance of 88 ohms will display as 80 psi (550 kPa). The Check Engine Oil Pressure indicator will be displayed in the message center if the IPC detects a low engine oil pressure.
Does this one drop out also ? quit working
I would suggest that you take an have the IPC checked for DTC'S - diagnostic trouble codes , NOT OBD 2 engine codes , these are different an need a professional type scan tool .
You could check G103 for being loose . G103
On the left rear of the engine block . Also pull the instrument cluster out an check connection at the back of IPC . Check power an ground circuits at the PCM as well . You can fine wiring diagrams here http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html Enter the vehicle info . year , make , model an engine . under system click body an acc. then under subsystem click on instrumentation .Click the search button , then click the blue link . At the top of the diagram it shows B+ power supply , The connectors on the back of IPC , A,B , plus the pin # an color wire . PCM power and ground testing avi How To Use Multimeter Test Car Ground Video 3 Intermittent Electrical Diagnostics with Rich Peterson
Are we guessing , could it be the PCM ! We test don't guess . Find a wiring diagram an check , also have a scan tool hooked up to see If the PCM is energizing the fuel pump relay . Or check for control with a test light , Pin A -21 Green with black stripe wire at the PCM will supply a ground to energize the fuel pump relay . You can test with a test light . Videos on youtube , testing computer drivers .
Mike, I don't know what you are working on, Chrysler? Chevy? Chrysler and Jeep have an Automatic Shutdown Relay for power to the coil. But the only thing I know that gets a 2 second signal with key in on, is the fuel pump relay. The pcm sends a 2 second signal to pin 85 or 86 of the FP relay with key on to prime the fuel system. Do you need a wiring diagram?
Just did my fuel pump on the 2001 isuzu rodeo. Well here is what you need to do about the different wire colors. First disconnect your negative battery. Drop the fuel tank and replace pump. Remember to have a splice kit in hand. Ok now here is how you connect the different colored wires. Black goes with black. Gray goes with black and orange wire. Purple goes wit blue and yellow. And the last wires goes together. I hope this helps.
Are you getting battery power and ground at the fuel pump connector? (This should have been checked BEFORE replacing the pump)
Other things to check:
1. Fuel Pump relay in the Engine Compartment Fuse Block
2. The relay is powered (Secondary -or- "fuel pump side") by Fuse 0 in the Engine Compartment Fuse Block.
3. The relay Primary -or- "control" side is powered by Pin 37 RED wire at the PCM
4. The relay Primary control (or ground circuit) is operated by Pin 22 LIGHT BLUE/ORANGE wire at the PCM
5. The Inertia Fuel Shut-off Switch located between the fuel pump relay and the fuel pump may need to be reset. The switch is located behind the right kick panel. The DARK GREEN/YELLOW wire at the switch is the feed from the fuel pump relay. The other wire goes to the fuel pump. Some units have the DARK GREEN/YELLOW wire going in and the wire going out can also be DARK GREEN/YELLOW, or PINK, or ORANGE - the wiring diagram for your vehicle does not specify the color of the wire that actually goes to the fuel pump itself.)
6. If none of the above produce any results, make sure that your ground wire at the fuel pump has good continuity to ground. It usually screws to the left frame rail near the fuel tank.
Any of these components (including the PCM) or their connecting wires could be the cause of your problem.
Well in a short term, you have a short circuit somewhere. Here is a detailed toturial for you. Please rate this post, thank you.
Automatic Shutdown (ASD) sense - PCM Input
The ASD sense circuit informs the PCM when the ASD relay energizes. A 12 volt signal at this input indicated to the PCM that the ASD has been activated. This input is used only to sense that the ASD relay is energized. When energized, the ASD relay supplies battery voltage to the fuel injectors, ignition coils, and the heating element in each oxygen sensor. If the PCM does not receive 12 volts from this input after grounding the ASD reley, it sets a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC).
Automatic Shutdown Relay - PCM Output
The PCM operates the Automatic Shutdown (ASD) relay and fuel pump relay through one ground path. The PCM operates them by switching the ground path for the solenoid side of the realys on and off. Both realys turn on and off at the same time. The ASD relay connects battery voltage to the fuel injectors and ignition coil. The fuel pump relay connects battery voltage to the fuel pump. A buss bar in the power distribution center (PDC) supplies voltage to the solenoid side and contact side of the relay. The ASD relay power circuit contains a 20 amp fuse between the buss bar in the PDC and teh relay. The fuse also protects the power circuit for the fuel pump relay and pump. The fuse is located in teh PDC. The PCM controls the relay by switching the ground path for the solenoid side of the relay on and off. The PCM turns the ground path off when the ignition switch is in the Off position. When the ignition switch is in the On or Crank position, the PCM monitors the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor signals to determine engine speed and ignition timing (coil dwell). If the PCM does not receive the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position when the ignition switch is in teh Run position, it will de-energize teh ASD relay. The ASD relay and fuel pump relay are located in the PDC near the battery. The inside top of the PCD cover has a label showing relay and fuse location.
ASD and Fuel Pump Relays
The following description of operation and tests apply only to the Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relays. The terminals on the bottom of each relay are numbered.
'------------------' ' __85 ___________' ' __87A '87 '30 ___' Sorry for the crudeness of this. This is supposed to ' __86 ___________' be the relay terminals! '------------------'
OPERATION - Terminal number 30 is connected to battery voltage. For both the ASD and fuel pump relays, terminal 30 is connected to battery voltage at all times. - The PCM grounds the coil side of the relay through terminal number 85. - Terminal number 86 supplies voltage to the coil side of the relay. - When the PCM de-energizes the ASD and fuel pump relays, terminal number 87A connects to terminal 30. This is the Off position. In the off position, voltage is not supplied to the rest of the circuit. Terminal 87A is the center terminal on the relay. - When the PCM energizes the ASD and fuel pump relays, terminal 87 connects to terminal 30. This is the On position. Terminal 87 supplies voltage to the rest of the curcuit.
TESTING The following procedure applies to the ASD and fuel pump relays. (1) Remove relay from connector before testing. (2) With the relay removed from the vehicle, use an ohmmeter to check the resistance between terminals 85 and 86. The resistance shoud be 75±5 ohms. (3) Connect the ohmmeter between terminals 30 and 87A. The ohmmeter should show continuity between terminals 30 and 87A. (4) Connect the ohmmeter between between terminals 87 and 30. The ohmmeter should not show continuity at this time. (5) Connect one end of a jumper wire (16 guage or smaller) to relay terminal 85. Connect the other end of the jumper wire to the ground side of a 12 volt power source. (6) Connect on end of another jumper wire (16 guage or smaller) to the power side of the 12 volt power source. Do not attach the other end of the jumper wire to the relay at this time.
WARNING: DO NOT ALLOW OHMMETER TO CONTACT TERMINALS 85 OR 86 DURING THIS TEST.
(7) Attach the other end of the jumper wire to relay terminal 86. This activates the relay. The ohmmeter should now show continuity between relay terminals 87 and 30. The ohmmeter should not show continuity between relay terminals 87A and 30. (8) Disconnect jumper wires. (9) Replace the relay if it did not pass the continuity and resistance tests. If the relay passed the tests, is operates properly. Check the remainder of the ASD and fuel pump curcuits.
I know you said you replaced the relay, and this is a test procedure for the relay, but I have bought bad parts in the past. The description before the test procedure at least gives you an idea of what components are wired through and controlled by the relay. One of those may be faulty. Email me if you want or need wiring diagrams and I should be able to scan them and email them to you.