Question about 1992 Eagle Talon

3 Answers

It is very hard to start when it is cold, my check engin light is on, i replaced the pcm, (with used rebuilt) same problem. i put volt tacometer on, it gives code, that my barometric sesor, air intake sensor, engin coolant sensor, top dead sensor, and throttle position sensor are bad. i also replaced the barometric/throttle position sensor, engin coolant sensor, i ohm'd out the throttle position sensor, i diconnected my battery, the codes did not clear,

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  • nathenhamill Jun 25, 2009

    i would like to talk to a new expert, i feel he is on the wrong path, he said nothing aboout why my check engin light is still on, i did replace the battery, and the altinator, also ignition coil,wires and plugs, i did a fuel pressure test also. i believe it is somthing else, thx nathen

  • nathenhamill Jun 25, 2009

    ok once again i feel there on the wrong path, as i said i did a fuel pressure test and i puy heat in the tank, also ive had this problem for a year, yes it is harder to start in the winter, but that is because of my engine coolant temp. sensor.

  • nathenhamill Jun 25, 2009

    ok well u are the closest to hit on this, but im not sure u got all the info,

    i also replaced the ignition coil(distributor) plug wires and plugs( i have spark) i also did a fuel pressure test, i took it to a shop and had them check the timing(they said it was good..?) i have also checked voltage, at my plug for my engine coolant temp. sensor i got voltage & ground(per what i was told i needed). so i am thinking it is 1 of 3 things my computer, my wire harness, or my timing, but i am not the machanic!!!!

  • nathenhamill Jun 25, 2009

    ok what effect would an engine compression test have on all my trouble codes?

    as i said i have no distributor it is an ignition coil, and i replaced it with the plug wires and plugs, and i have spark. also what is an mfl?

  • nathenhamill Jun 25, 2009

    the car has 80,000 miles , did run well after i changed the plugs, but now it is running rough again, i beleave it is from it getting a bad signal from my intake sensor, or somewhere, i did replace the computer although it was used, it had the same problem before i changed the computer, the old computer was putting out a code that it was bad. all these codes i got from a volt tackometer, not a scan tool. i took it to a mech. to have it put on a scan tool but he said it wouldnt read. and he needs to check other things, but after that he would never take me in. this is a small island and the mech.s here get to pick and choose there work. thx

  • nathenhamill Jun 26, 2009

    thank u, you have stuck with me through all my reply's. so thank you very, very much!

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  • Eagle Master
  • 2,200 Answers

This problem could be down to several issues all the way through from a faulty fuel pump to a faulty ECU. If the car has high mileage it could be related to poor compression in the engine itself which will make it more difficult to start when cold (rings/valves lose compression when cold)

However the multiple codes showing make me wonder a) is your ignition timing gone out which also will give poor starting and confused codes

b) Is your ECU (engine managent unit) faulty

However my suggestion is first of all to go back to the basics and carefully check your distributor (often can have fine cracks that cause this problem), electronic coils/module, HT and plug leads.

Hope this helps

Posted on Jun 25, 2009

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  • Radio Code Pro
    Radio Code Pro Jun 25, 2009

    Having just read your additional comments I would srongly suggest



    1) Engine compression test



    2) Check distributor for cracks



    3) MAF is most likely suspect otherwise.

  • Radio Code Pro
    Radio Code Pro Jun 25, 2009

    I can fully understand how frustrating this problem is for you and tracing the fault has been a right pain. It sounds as if you have gone through all the firstline troubleshooting and still the problem persists.



    The most concerning of this is the fact that the trouble codes are still showing up. Often in my experience when the throttle position sensor code shows up and does not resolve by replacing the TPS the answer is that the computer is shot. In my experience that particular code for TPS is also a common indicator of a faulty computer.



    Is the car high mileage? If so I would still recommend having the compression test done. Its easy to do, costs very little and will straight away give you an indication of the health of the engine. If the car has poor compression its possible this is confusing the computer into multiple codes though somewhat unlikely.



    Just to clarify does the car run well once it eventually starts from cold or is it running poorly in addition to poor starting?

  • Radio Code Pro
    Radio Code Pro Jun 25, 2009

    Ok my friend. I have spoken to a colleague about this problem you are having and he has mentioned that this car has a fairly common electrical fault problem with the fuel injection control relay. Its possible that this is giving out an intermittent fault so causing your trouble codes. Its located next to the ecu under the panel by the passenger's feet and usually is gold in color. It's 2 relays in one on models up to 1996 and contains both a fuel pump relay and fuel injection control relay. In 1997 they changed it to 2 separate relays.



    Can be checked with a multimeter and a lot of breakers have them for around $5. I think they cost around $60 for a new one. Given that you have changed the ECU and all the other work done so far I would be inclined to investigate this as a possibility.

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  • Expert
  • 60 Answers

Hello,

Sounds like a fuel pump issue with the long crank. They have an anti drain back valve in the pump that keeps fuel in the lines and primed. So when you start it the fuel is right there. The winter time if the fuel drained back and there was moisture in the lines, it could have frozen, blocking fuel return.

The random dieing issue could be a separate problem.

Cheers!
Ryan

Posted on Jun 25, 2009

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  • Master
  • 3,917 Answers

Hi,

I see that you have already made quite some changes. Not very sure whether they would have helped you or not.
First, you need a new battery with the highest cold cranking amps for your car. Did you winterize? Did you flush the radiator and get plenty of anti-freeze in there? Change the spark plugs and clean the carburetor. Make sure you've changed the oil to the lowest viscosity recommended for your car. Probably 5w 30. If it has been OK in the starting in the cold in the past, the most likely causes are battery or alternator. A battery problem could just be loose or corroded connections so clean the battery terminals and cable connectors (take off the cables and use a wire brush. You can get a round wire brush to clean the inside of the connectors at any half ways OK store auto department for next to nothing), and drive around for a while to see if the battery takes a charge. If that doesn't work, try using a battery charger. If you don't want to mess with it yourself and if you know a garage that has a good reputation (the chain store garages usually are good because they don't want bad publicity), you can have them clean the terminals and test the battery pretty cheaply. If it isn't the battery, it is probably the alternator then if that is OK the starter. If you get told it is the wiring, it will cost you in labor because you can hardly ever find a wiring problem quickly. If it isn't the battery, you need a garage or someone who has testers. Thanks for contacting Fixya.

Posted on Jun 25, 2009

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The alternator is not charging the battery on my 2002 Alero, how do I fix this?


a bad battery would give a wrong judgement of an alternator output. take off your battery and replace with a working one, test your alternator output using a DMM it should read about 12.5 when engine off and 14v when engine start running any figure more or less shows you have a bad alternator or an incorrect input current to the alternator....hope this fixxx it?

Jul 14, 2015 | 2002 Oldsmobile Alero

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I have a 2000 crown vic and my coolant fan wont come on unless i cut the a/c on or unplugged the cylinder head sensor i changed thermostat and temp sensor it still same thing what could be the problem


You have a wiring problem from sensor to the PCM - engine computer .
DL22 CHECK CHT SIGNAL CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GROUND
    Note: Refer to the PCM connector pin numbers in the beginning of this pinpoint test.
  • Disconnect PCM.
  • Measure resistance between CHT signal and SIG RTN circuits and then between CHT signal and PWR GND circuits at the PCM harness connector.
  • the PCM is what controls the cooling fan !
  • This Pinpoint Test is intended to diagnose the following:
    • Cylinder head temperature (CHT) sensor (6G004)
    • Harness circuits: CHT, VREF, and SIG RTN
    • Powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650)

    Tables and Graphs

    On applications that do not use a ECT sensor, the CHT sensor is used to determine the engine coolant temperature in place of the ECT sensor. In this case the PCM may store both CHT and ECT Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs). To cover the entire temperature range of both the CHT and ECT sensors, the PCM has a dual switching resistor circuit on the CHT input. A graph showing the temperature switching from the COLD END line to the HOT END line with increasing temperature and back with decreasing temperature is included. Note the temperature to voltage overlap zone. Within this zone it is possible to have either a COLD END or HOT END voltage at the same temperature. For example, at 90°C (194 °F) the voltage could read either 0.60 volt or 3.71 volts. Refer to the table for the temperature to voltage expected values.
    Voltage values were calculated for VREF = 5.0 volts. These values can vary 15 percent due to sensor and VREF variations.
  • DL1 DTC P1288 OR P1116: CHECK OPERATION OF CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE SENSOR
    • Run engine at 2000 rpm until engine temperature becomes stabilized.
    • No Starts or Vehicle that Stalls:
      • GO to DL3 .
    • Check that upper radiator hose is hot and pressurized.
    • Rerun Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.
    Is DTC P1288 or P1116 present? Yes No GO to DL2 . Engine temperature was not stabilized. REPAIR any other DTCs as necessary. DL2 CHECK VREF CIRCUIT VOLTAGE AT TP SENSOR
    • Refer to schematic at the beginning of this pinpoint test.
    • Disconnect throttle position (TP) sensor.
    • Key on, engine off.
    • Measure the voltage between VREF and SIG RTN circuits at the TP sensor harness connector.
    Is voltage between 4.0 volts and 6.0 volts? Yes No There is sufficient VREF voltage. RECONNECT TP sensor. GO to DL3 . GO to C1 . DL3 CHECK RESISTANCE OF CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE SENSOR WITH ENGINE OFF
    • Disconnect CHT sensor.
    • Measure resistance between CHT signal and SIG RTN pins at the CHT sensor. Refer to the table at the beginning of this pinpoint test for resistance specifications.
    Is resistance within specification? Yes No For No Starts or Stalls, RETURN to Section 3 , Symptom Charts.

    All others, GO to DL4 . REPLACE CHT sensor. You need a scan tool to do some of these tests
  • DL4 CHECK RESISTANCE OF CHT SENSOR WITH ENGINE RUNNING
      Note: Verify that engine is at operating temperature before taking CHT readings.
    • Run engine for two minutes at 2000 rpm.
    • Measure resistance between CHT signal and SIG RTN pins at the CHT sensor. Refer to the table at the beginning of this Pinpoint Test for resistance specifications.
    • Key off.
    Is resistance within specification? Yes No REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) ). REPLACE CHT sensor. DL5 DTC P1289 OR P1290: ACCESS CHT PID AND CHECK VOLTAGE
    • Connect scan tool.
    • Key on, engine off.
    • Access CHT V PID.
    Is the CHT V PID less than 0.2 volt? Yes No GO to DL6 . GO to DL7 . DL11 CHECK CHT SENSOR SIGNAL AND SIG RTN CIRCUITS FOR OPEN IN HARNESS
      Note: Refer to the PCM connector pin numbers in the beginning of this pinpoint test.
    • Disconnect PCM.
    • Measure resistance of CHT circuit between PCM harness connector pin and CHT sensor harness connector.
    • Measure resistance of SIG RTN circuit between PCM harness connector pin and CHT sensor harness connector.
    Is each resistance less than 5.0 ohms? Yes No REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) ). REPAIR open circuits. free wiring diagrams at www.bbbind.com

Jul 13, 2015 | Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

1997 ford contour will not start after replacing transmission why not?


Check your electrical connections especially the throttle position sensor, and the cam position sensor. One other thing to look at is the two coolant temp sensors. One on the front is for the dash gauge, the other on top is for the PCM reference. Ie cold engine, full choke. Warm engine, lean open choke. if not connected it's like trying to start a cold engine without a choke closed, and you end up flooding the cylinders with gas washing them out and killing compression. also ensure you connected the idle air control valve electrical connection. It's located under the throttle body at the back of the engine towards the top. hard to get to but it won't allow the engine to start or idle.

Apr 08, 2015 | 1997 Ford Contour

1 Answer

2005 lincon aviator charing system 12.2 volts after alternator install


check the black/orange wire at the alternator for battery voltage if no power check the fuesable link ( A )

check the orange/light blue wire at the alternator for battery voltage if no power check the fuesable links ( B & C )

check the light green/red wire for 12 volt with the engine running if no power replace the PCM.

if all wires have the proper voltage then replace the alternator

GOOD LUCK

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2 Answers

We changed the alternater like four times the battery light wont turn off, we have even check some wire


the plug on the alt will some times go bad usually melting this is normally the cause of this

Feb 14, 2011 | 2000 Ford Focus

1 Answer

Code po117a what does this mean


P0117 - Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Circuit Low Input

The ECT (Engine coolant temperature) sensor is a thermistor located in the engine block or other coolant passage. It changes resistance with changes in temperature of the coolant that it's in contact with. It's usually a two wire sensor. One wire is a 5 volt reference from PCM (Powertrain Control Module) and the other is a ground supplied from PCM.

As the temperature of the coolant changes, the resistance of the sensor changes. When the engine is cold, the resistance is high. When the engine is warm, the resistance is low. If the PCM detects a signal voltage lower than the normal operating range of the sensor then P0117 code will set.

Potential symptoms include:
* MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) illumination
* Poor fuel economy
* Poor drivability
* Engine may run rough or blow black smoke out the tailpipe
* May not idle
* May start and then die

Causes: Potential causes of the P0117 code include:
* Bad ECT sensor
* Short to ground on ECT signal circuit
* Faulty or damaged connectors
* Wiring harness damaged
* Loose terminals at ECT or PCM
* POSSIBLY an overheated engine
* Bad PCM

Possible Solutions: Since this code is for an abnormally low signal to the PCM from the ECT, the PCM saw a excessively "hot" condition in the engine coolant. This could be due to faulty ECT sensor or wiring, but it could, conceivably, be caused by an overheated engine.So if your engine was overheated diagnose that first. Having said that here are the possible solutions:

Using a scan tool, with KOEO (Key on engine off) check the ECT reading on the display. On a cold engine the ECT reading should match the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor reading. If it doesn't, replace the ECT sensor.

1. If the ECT reading is showing an excessively hot reading, for example more than 260 deg. F, then unplug the ECT sensor. This should cause the ECT reading to drop to the extreme cold reading (around -30 deg.F or so). If it does, replace the sensor, because it's internally shorted. If it doesn't change the reading, the check for a short to ground on the signal circuit of the ECT wiring. It could be that the two ECT wires are shorted to each other. Look for any chafing or melted wiring. Repair as necessary.
a. If you can't find any wiring problems and the ECT reading doesn't drop to the extreme coldest when unplugged, then, check for voltage coming out of the PCM on the signal wire's pin at the PCM connector. If there isn't any voltage, or it is low, then the PCM may be bad. NOTE: On some models it is possible for the 5 Volt reference signal to be temperarily shorted. This can happen if an engine sensor internally shorts the 5 Volt reference. Since the 5 Volt reference is a "shared" circuit on many models, this will cause it to be abnormally low. Usually, though this will be accompanied by several other sensor codes. If you suspect that may be the case, unplug each sensor until the 5 Volt reference reappears. The last sensor unplugged is the offending sensor. Replace and recheck the signal wire from the PCM connector

2. If the scan tool ECT reading seems normal at this time then the problem may be intermittent. Use a "wiggle" test to manipulate the wiring harness and connectors while watching the ECT reading on the scan tool. Repair any wiring or connectors that are loose or corroded. You could check the Freeze frame data if your scan tool has that function. It will show the ECT reading when the failure occurred. If it shows the reading to be at the hottest extreme then replace the ECT sensor and see if the code reappears.

Other ECT sensor and circuit related DTCs: P0115, P0116, P0118, P0119, P0125, P0128

Hope this help to check and solve it.

Jan 19, 2011 | 2004 Chevrolet Impala

1 Answer

I have a 1999 Dodge Durango 5.9 Engine and lately it shuts down while I am still driving. I have read several blogs online by other people who own these vehicles and have had the same problem (engine...


Have you check for DTC'S - diagnostic trouble codes ?
Hi. There is a good chance the pcm is causing this , if especially if the vehicle won't start. There are a few other things that will do it too, a sensor or wiring problem can take the pcm down. We can run through a few things if you have a voltmeter to make sure its the pcm if you want. Checking PCM reference voltage at a sensor that's easy to get to , like the TPS . - throttle position sensor . It's a three wire sensor , one wire is a signal to the pcm , ones is a ground supplied from the PCM an the last is a voltage supplie from the pcm , called a reference voltage . could be 5 , 7 or 12 volts it's a steady voltage not like charging voltage .
How to check the 5v reference circuit for short to ground Cadillac Testing ECM Input Sensors with Volt Ohm Meter

Mar 11, 2017 | 1999 Dodge Durango

1 Answer

My mechanic told me my P0107 is possibly bad. Is this located in the same location as the P0108


P0107 - Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Low Input

The Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor responds to changes in the intake manifold pressure (vacuum). 5 Volts is supplied to the sensor from the PCM (powertrain control module). Inside the MAP sensor is a resistor that moves in relation to manifold pressure. The resistor varies the voltage between about 1 volt to 4.5 volts (depending on engine load) and that voltage signal is returned to the PCM to indicate manifold pressure (vacuum). This signal is essential for the PCM to determine fuel delivery. A P0107 DTC is set when the PCM sees that the MAP signal voltage is less than .25 volts which is too low.

Potential Symptoms: Anytime the MAP sensor signal is low the vehicle will likely have a very difficult time starting. Other symptoms may include:
* Hard to start
* Long cranking times
* Sputtering/missing
* Blowing black smoke
* Poor fuel economy
* Dies intermittently
* MIL(Malfunction Indicator Lamp) illumination

Causes: The causes of a low MAP sensor signal circuit (P0107) could be any of the following:
* Bad MAP sensor
* Open or short in the signal circuit
* Open or short in the 5 Volt reference circuit
* Ground circuit open or shorted
* Bad PCM

Possible Solutions: First, using a scan tool with the Key on and engine running, monitor the MAP sensor voltage. If it is reading less than .5 volts, turn engine off, unplug the MAP sensor and, using a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) check for 5Volts on the 5 Volt reference circuit.

1. If there is not 5 Volts on the reference circuit, then check for the reference voltage at the PCM connector. If it is present at the PCM connector but not the MAP connector, repair the open in the reference circuit between the PCM and MAP harness connector. If 5 Volt reference is NOT present at the PCM connector, check powers and grounds of PCM and repair/replace as needed. (NOTE: On Chrysler products, a shorted Crank sensor, Vehicle speed sensor or any other sensor that utilizes the 5 Volt reference from the PCM can short out the 5 Volt reference. To fix simply unplug each sensor one at a time until the 5 Volt reference reappears. The last sensor unplugged is the shorted sensor.)

2. If you have a 5 Volt reference at the MAP connector, jumper the 5 volt reference circuit to the signal circuit. Now check the MAP voltage on the scan tool. It should be 4.5 to 5 Volts. If it is, replace MAP sensor. If not, repair open/short in the signal circuit wiring and re-check.

3. If all appears okay, perform a wiggle test. Start engine and manipulate the harness, connector and tap on the MAP sensor. Note any changes in voltage or engine speed. Repair connector, harness, or sensor as needed.

4. If the wiggle test checks out, use a vacuum pump (or just use your lungs) to draw a vacuum on the MAP sensor vacuum port. As you add vacuum the voltage should decrease. With no vacuum, the MAP sensor should read approximately 4.5 volts. If there is no change in MAP sensor reading on the scan tool, replace MAP sensor.

MAP Sensor DTC's: P0105, P0106, P0107, P0108 and P0109.

Hope helps (remember rated and comment this).

Aug 06, 2010 | 1997 Chevrolet Venture

2 Answers

I have a 97 grand prix which I had just replace the upper intake manifold on as it had a hole in it allowing the engine to take coolant into the cylinders and burn it. Now the check engine check light is...


The Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor responds to changes in the intake manifold pressure (vacuum). 5 Volts is supplied to the sensor from the PCM (powertrain control module). Inside the MAP sensor is a resistor that moves in relation to manifold pressure. The resistor varies the voltage between about 1 volt to 4.5 volts (depending on engine load) and that voltage signal is returned to the PCM to indicate manifold pressure (vacuum). This signal is essential for the PCM to determine fuel delivery. A P0107 DTC is set when the PCM sees that the MAP signal voltage is less than .25 volts which is too low.

Potential Symptoms Anytime the MAP sensor signal is low the vehicle will likely have a very difficult time starting. Other symptoms may include:
  • Hard to start
  • Long cranking times
  • Sputtering/missing
  • Blowing black smoke
  • Poor fuel economy
  • Dies intermittently
  • MIL(Malfunction Indicator Lamp) illumination
Causes The causes of a low MAP sensor signal circuit (P0107) could be any of the following:
  • Bad MAP sensor
  • Open or short in the signal circuit
  • Open or short in the 5 Volt reference circuit
  • Ground circuit open or shorted
  • Bad PCM
Possible Solutions First, using a scan tool with the Key on and engine running, monitor the MAP sensor voltage. If it is reading less than .5 volts, turn engine off, unplug the MAP sensor and, using a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) check for 5Volts on the 5 Volt reference circuit.
1. If there is not 5 Volts on the reference circuit, then check for the reference voltage at the PCM connector. If it is present at the PCM connector but not the MAP connector, repair the open in the reference circuit between the PCM and MAP harness connector. If 5 Volt reference is NOT present at the PCM connector, check powers and grounds of PCM and repair/replace as needed. (NOTE: On Chrysler products, a shorted Crank sensor, Vehicle speed sensor or any other sensor that utilizes the 5 Volt reference from the PCM can short out the 5 Volt reference. To fix simply unplug each sensor one at a time until the 5 Volt reference reappears. The last sensor unplugged is the shorted sensor.)
2. If you have a 5 Volt reference at the MAP connector, jumper the 5 volt reference circuit to the signal circuit. Now check the MAP voltage on the scan tool. It should be 4.5 to 5 Volts. If it is, replace MAP sensor. If not, repair open/short in the signal circuit wiring and re-check.
3. If all appears okay, perform a wiggle test. Start engine and manipulate the harness, connector and tap on the MAP sensor. Note any changes in voltage or engine speed. Repair connector, harness, or sensor as needed.
4. If the wiggle test checks out, use a vacuum pump
(or just use your lungs) to draw a vacuum on the MAP sensor vacuum port. As you add vacuum the voltage should decrease. With no vacuum, the MAP sensor should read approximately 4.5 volts. If there is no change in MAP sensor reading on the scan tool, replace MAP sensor.

Feb 28, 2010 | 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix

1 Answer

My 1999 town&country is freaking out.check engine light on.womt start half the time.lights flash.speedometor and tacometer dont work any suggestions would help


Sounds like a BCM problem to me. Have it checked at the dealership to comfirm, or somewhere that has a good scan tool, and can communicate with other modules besides the PCM.

Jun 10, 2009 | 2000 Chrysler Town & Country

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