Question about 1993 Audi 90

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Ignition sitch fails to operate

Ignition switch responds as if it will not engage the starter. Acts as if it is broken internally

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IT IS BRKEN......U ARE CORRECT U NEED TO CHANGE IT.......

Posted on Apr 22, 2014

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How do you replace the ignition switch on a 2002 buick century?


What do you mean no sound when turning key ? Does the car start an run ? Or the car doesn't crank ? Ignition switch's do not work the same way they did in the old days , especially on GM vehicles . The ignition switch is an input to the BCM - body control module , the BCM processes these inputs an then energizes relays to turn things on . Also sends messages to other modules for them to turn on or energize relays .
The power mode signal may be as simple as a B+ input wired to a particular ignition switch contact. If this is also the B+ supply to the module/device, the module/device will only operate with the ignition contact closed to B+. An example of this is the starter relay when it is wired directly to the CRANK/START contact of the ignition switch. When the CRANK/START contacts are closed, the starter relay is energized and provides a current source to the starter and starter solenoid. When the ignition switch leaves the CRANK/START position, the switch contacts open and the starter relay is de-energized. This removes the current source from the starter and solenoid and the starter operation stops.
Serial Data Power Mode
On vehicles that have several control modules connected by serial data circuits, one module is the power mode master (PMM). On this vehicle the PMM is the Body Control Module (BCM). The BCM receives 4 signals/circuits from the ignition switch. These are the Ignition 0, Ignition 1, Crank and Accessory 1 ignition switch signals/circuits.
To determine the correct power mode the BCM uses:
?€¢
The state of these signals/circuits, either switch closed (B+ = 1) or switch open (open = 0)


?€¢
The sequence of switch closures received by the BCM


?€¢
The status of the engine run flag.


Important: Any ignition switch states not covered in this table indicates a DTC setting situation.
The chart indicates the modes detected and transmitted by the BCM:
Power Mode Selected/Expected
Engine Run Flag Serial Data
Sampled Ignition Signal State
Power Mode State
Accessory
Ignition 0
Ignition 1
Crank
OFF-LOCK
0
0
0
0
0
OFF
Accessory
0
1
0
0
0
ACCESSORY
RAP
0
1 to 0
0
0
0
RAP
OFF-UNLOCK
0
0
1
0
0
UNLOCK
RAP
0
1 to 0
1
0
0
RAP-UNLOCK
Run
0
1
1
1
0
RUN
Crank
0
0
1
1
1
CRANK
Crank
1
0
1
1
1
CRANK
Run
1
1
1
1
0
RUN
Fail-safe Operation
Since the operation of the vehicle systems depends on the power mode, there is a fail-safe plan in place should the BCM fail to send a power mode message. The fail-safe plan covers modules with discrete ignition signal inputs as well as those modules using exclusively serial data control of power mode.
Serial Data Messages The modules that depend exclusively on serial data messages for power modes stay in the state dictated by the last valid BCM message until they can check for the engine run flag status on the serial data circuits. If the BCM fails, the modules monitor the serial data circuit for the engine run flag serial data. If the engine run flag serial data is True, indicating that the engine is running, the modules fail-safe to "RUN". In this state the modules and their subsystems can support all operator requirements. If the engine run flag serial data is False, indicating that the engine is not running, the modules fail-safe to "OFF-AWAKE". In this state the modules are constantly checking for a change status message on the serial data circuits and can respond to both local inputs and serial data inputs from other modules on the vehicle.
Discrete Ignition Signals Those modules that have discrete ignition signal inputs also remain in the state dictated by the last valid BCM message received on the serial data circuits. They then check the state of their discrete ignition input to determine the current valid state. If the discrete ignition input is active, B+, the modules will fail-safe to the "RUN" power mode. If the discrete ignition input is not active, open or 0 voltage, the modules will fail-safe to "OFF-AWAKE". In this state the modules are constantly checking for a change status message on the serial data circuits and can respond to both local inputs and serial data inputs from other modules on the vehicle.
You probably won't understand any of this info. your best but would be to take it to a qualified repair shop that has proper diagnostic test equipment !

Sep 29, 2016 | Buick Cars & Trucks

Tip

When your running late for work and your Car Won't Start you need answers fast...


<span><a>Engine Starting Problems </a></span> <a>Gasoline Engines </a> <a>Engine turns over, but will not start </a> <ol> <li>Check fuel level in fuel tank, add fuel if empty. </li> <li>Check BATTERY condition and state of charge. If voltage and load test below specification, charge or replace battery. </li> <li>Check battery terminal and cable condition and tightness. Clean terminals and replace damaged, worn or corroded cables. </li> <li>Check FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM. If fuel is not reaching the fuel injectors, check for a loose electrical connector or defective fuse, relay or fuel pump and replace as necessary. </li> <li>Engine may have excessive wear or mechanical damage such as low CYLINDER CRANKING PRESSURE, a broken camshaft drive system, insufficient valve clearance or bent valves. </li> <li>Check for fuel contamination such as water in the fuel. During winter months, the water may freeze and cause a fuel restriction. Adding a fuel additive may help, however the fuel system may require draining and purging with fresh fuel. </li> <li>Check for IGNITION SYSTEM <a href="http://www.freeautomechanic.com/ignition-system.html"></a> failure. Check for loose or shorted wires or damaged ignition system components. Check the SPARK PLUGS<a href="http://www.freeautomechanic.com/sparkplugs.html"></a> for excessive wear or incorrect electrode gap. If the problem is worse in wet weather, check for shorts between the spark plugs and the IGNITION COILS . </li> <li>Check the engine management system for a failed SENSOR <a href="http://www.freeautomechanic.com/car-engine-sensors.html"></a>or control module. </li></ol> <a>Engine does not turn over when attempting to start </a> <ol> <li>Check the battery state of charge and condition. If the dash lights are not visible or very dim when turning the ignition key on, the battery has either failed internally or discharged, the battery cables are loose, excessively corroded or damaged, or the alternator has failed or internally shorted, discharging the battery. Charge or replace the battery, clean or replace the battery cables, and check the alternator output. </li> <li>Check the operation of the neutral safety switch. On automatic transmission vehicles, try starting the vehicle in both Park and Neutral. On manual transmission vehicles, depress the clutch pedal and attempt to start. On some vehicles, these switches can be adjusted. Make sure the switches or wire connectors are not loose or damaged. Replace or adjust the switches as necessary. </li> <li>Check the starter motor, starter solenoid or relay, and starter motor cables and wires. Check the ground from the engine to the chassis. Make sure the wires are not loose, damaged, or corroded. If battery voltage is present at the starter relay, try using a remote starter to start the vehicle for test purposes only. Replace any damaged or corroded cables, in addition to replacing any failed components. </li> <li>Check the engine for seizure. If the engine has not been started for a long period of time, internal parts such as the rings may have rusted to the cylinder walls. The engine may have suffered internal damage, or could be hydro-locked from ingesting water. Remove the spark plugs and carefully attempt to rotate the engine using a suitable breaker bar and socket on the crankshaft pulley. If the engine is resistant to moving, or moves slightly and then binds, do not force the engine any further before determining the problem. </li></ol> <p> <br /> <p> <br /> <a>Engine stalls immediately when started </a> <ol> <li>Check the ignition switch condition and operation. The electrical contacts in the run position may be worn or damaged. Try restarting the engine with all electrical accessories in the off position. Sometimes turning the key on an off will help in emergency situations, however once the switch has shown signs of failure, it should be replaced as soon as possible. </li> <li>Check for loose, corroded, damaged or shorted wires for the ignition system and repair or replace. </li> <li>Check for manifold vacuum leaks or vacuum hose leakage and repair or replace parts as necessary. </li> <li>Measure the fuel pump delivery volume and pressure. Low fuel pump pressure can also be noticed as a lack of power when accelerating. Make sure the fuel pump lines are not restricted. The fuel pump output is not adjustable and requires fuel pump replacement to repair. </li> <li>Check the engine fuel and ignition management system. Inspect the sensor wiring and electrical connectors. A dirty, loose or damaged sensor or control module wire can simulate a failed component. </li> <li>Check the exhaust system for internal restrictions. </li></ol> <a>Starter motor spins, but does not engage </a> <ol> <li>Check the starter motor for a seized or binding pinion gear. </li> <li>Remove the flywheel inspection plate and check for a damaged ring gear. </li></ol> <a>Engine is difficult to start when cold </a> <ol> <li>Check the battery condition, battery state of charge and starter motor current draw. Replace the battery if marginal and the starter motor if the current draw is beyond specification. </li> <li>Check the battery cable condition. Clean the battery terminals and replace corroded or damaged cables. </li> <li>Check the fuel system for proper operation. A fuel pump with insufficient fuel pressure or clogged injectors should be replaced. </li> <li>Check the engine's tune-up status. Note the tune-up specifications and check for items such as severely worn spark plugs; adjust or replace as needed. On vehicles with manually adjusted valve clearances, check for tight valves and adjust to specification. </li> <li>Check for a failed coolant temperature sensor, and replace if out of specification. </li> <li>heck the operation of the engine management systems for fuel and ignition; repair or replace failed components as necessary. </li></ol> <a>Engine is difficult to start when hot </a> <ol> <li>Check the air filter and air intake system. Replace the air filter if it is dirty or contaminated. Check the fresh air intake system for restrictions or blockage. </li> <li>Check for loose or deteriorated engine grounds and clean, tighten or replace as needed. </li> <li>Check for needed maintenance. Inspect tune-up and service related items such as spark plugs and engine oil condition, and check the operation of the engine fuel and ignition management system. </li></ol>

on Jun 07, 2011 | 2009 Chevrolet Aveo

Tip

Trouble-shooting your Isuzu starter..


Basic operation of a starter:
Your engine's starter motor is an electrical motor that is used to rotate the engine in order to get it to fire up. This motor draws a large amont of current from the battery (in the order of 70 Amps and up). In order to supply power to the starter a solenoid is used, it acts as a switch between the battery and the starter motor. This solenoid also engages the starter gear with the engine's flywheel and disengages it once the engine is started. Because the circuit for the solenoid also draws a heavy current a further relay is needed to control it.
The diagram below shows the electrical layout of the starting system.
  • i : Battery
  • ii : Starter relay(located in the relay box in the engine compartment)
  • iii : Starter solenoid
  • iv : Starter incorporating solenoid and motor.
  • v : Engine
  • vi : Battery earth cable
  • vii : Engine earth cable
  • viii : Ignition fuse
  • ix : Starter fuse
  • x : Solenoid to starter supply cable
  • xi : Ignition switch
  • xii : Starter motor
When the ignition(xi) is turned it supplies power from the battery through fuse (viii) to the starter relay(ii).
The starter relay activates and supplies power to the starter solenoid(iii) via fuse (ix)
The starter solenoid activates and connects power from the battery to the starter via a short cable(x) between the solenoid and starter motor. This allows the starter motor to turn.

General trouble shooting.
Turn the ignition off.
1/ First you need to check that the fuses are intact.
Keep the ignition off. Place the vehicle in Neutral. Chock the wheels and engage the parking brake.
2/ To prove the starter motor, connect power from the battery positive to the cable (x). This must be done with jumper cables. Touch the jumper cable to the connector on the back of the solenoid where cable (x) connects. Take care not to short circuit the jumper cable to the engine or vehicle body. It can be a tight fit and might not always be possible. If you hear the starter motor spin then it is working along with the engine earth cable. If not, connect the negative lead of the jumper cable between the battery and the starter motor body or any other bare piece of metal on the engine and put the positive lead on cable (x) again. If the starter motor does not spin it needs to come out for repair/replacement. If it spins check both the battery earth cable and engine earth cable and repair where nescasary.
3/ Once the starter motor has been proved move on to the solenoid. Remove the thin wire from the solenoid. Using a small piece of wire, connect battery positive to the connector where you just took off the wire. The solenoid should kick in and the starter motor will turn the engine. If the solenoid does not kick in, remove the starter for repair/replacement of the solenoid. If the solenoid kicks in then replace the starter relay.

If the starting circuit still does not operate the fault will be in the wiring. This needs reasonable expertise and if you dont have a voltmeter handy is not advised.
Bear in mind on automatic transmission vehicles there is an additional switch (Mode switch) wired in between the ignition switch and the starter relay. This switch is on the transmission itself and if faulty will not allow the starter to operate even if steps 1 to 3 were successfull. The same goes for the anti theft/immobiliser system.

fd042ff.jpg
The following is specifically for Isuzu Trooper and Rodeo :
  • i : Battery
  • ii : Starter relay(located in the relay fuse box in the engine compartment designated X-17)
  • iii : Starter solenoid
  • iv : Starter incorporating solenoid and motor.
  • v : Engine
  • vi : Battery earth cable
  • vii : Engine earth cable
  • viii : 10A Starter fuse C-1(Fuse box: LH footwell on LHD vehicle, RH dash on RHD vehicle)
  • x : Solenoid to starter supply cable
  • xi : Ignition switch
  • xii : Starter motor
  • xiii : 80A Main fusible link FL-1(Relay fuse box)
  • xiv : 50 A Key SW fusible link FL-2(relay fuse box)
  • xv : Mode switch(A/T only - mounted on the side of the transmission) and for 6 cylinder manual transmission engines this is the clutch start switch mounted on the clutch pedal.
  • xvi : Anti theft system
  • B2 : B2 on ignition sitch
  • ST : ST on ignition switch
db79612.jpg


How to wire a relay

on Sep 17, 2010 | Isuzu Trooper Cars & Trucks

2 Answers

What could be causing my starter to keep burning out on my 2004 Hyundai Santa fe?


sounds like faulty ignition barrel or switch also check the relay

Apr 16, 2016 | Hyundai Cars & Trucks

2 Answers

STARTER MOTOR ENGAGING ALL THE TIME


I would suspect the ignition switch. Power has to be getting to the starter solenoid to activate it. See if you can disconnect the power going into the switch, If the problem stops,.... solved. If problem persists, look for loose wire that could be shorting at the solenoid.

Mar 17, 2015 | 2007 Toyota Yaris

1 Answer

What couse the STARTER TO STAY ENGAGED


You don't say whether the starter is continuously cranking the engine or just spinning continuously or whether after starting the engine the starter switches off but remains engaged? Lack of detail makes it difficult to give anything but a general answer.

Certainly the starter should be removed and checked for damage and correct operation. The pinion might be tight on the helix, the solenoid could be tight, the return spring broken or the arm pivot seized. If the starter has been engaged while the engine has run at speed or for more than a few minutes the overrun clutch should be replaced.

In any case where the starter has remained engaged the ignition/starter switch and the drive mechanism in the steering column lock should be inspected for correct operation.

Mar 01, 2015 | Chevrolet 1500 Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

No start, no noises when key engages the start position.


The large red wire at the starter is to the battery. The smaller wire is hot in the start position only! have someone turn the key to start and then check for voltage. If you have voltage you need a starter. If there is no voltage you either have an open from the ignition switch or a bad switch on the column. 1 last thing. Most cars have a fusible link at the starter. If there is a short somewhere the wire acts like a fuse and blows. You can check that by pulling in the wire or just feeling for a spot with no wire.

Jul 21, 2012 | 2000 Chrysler Sebring

1 Answer

Which relay controls whether or not i get a crank


There is no "Relay" per say, other then the solenoid on the starter it's self. The 4 components in the Starting circuit are the ignition switch, the transaxle position switch, the solenoid and the starter motor.

The ignition switch acts as a relay for power to the solenoid.

The transaxle position switch acts like another relay in that it will not allow the starter to turn if the car is not in neutral or park.

The Solenoid acts as a relay to the starter motor's power supply, and engages the starter's gear into the flywheel of the engine.

Jan 05, 2011 | 1991 Pontiac 6000

1 Answer

Ignition/starter failing to engage for multiple turns of key


sounds like the starter has a flat spot on the solenoid. remove and test the starter, replace if necessary.

Nov 06, 2009 | 1993 Volkswagen Fox

1 Answer

2000 Dodge Ram 1500 5.9L w/ AT will not start


Same thing happened to my 97 it was the saftey switch!

Jan 12, 2009 | 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 Truck

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