Question about 2004 Dodge Ram 2500

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Brake peddle goes to the floor intermitantly.

1994 Dodge Truck 2500. The brake peddle goes to the floor intermitantly. Doesn't always do it, usually only when rpm is low and coming to a slow stop. The master cylinder has been replaced three times at a garage. Twice with a rebuilt, and once with a new. Can not get peddle to drop when truck is not in motion. It feels just like a bad master cylinder, but it's intermitant. This started happening after left front hose broke, and I had it replaced. There is no fluid leaks anywhere. I also have bled system at least twice as per repair manual, and Publication No. 81-37014106

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  • twkarlsson May 25, 2009

    Twkarlsson: I was just wondering why you would say Brake Booster could be the problem? In my expearience of doing nothing but brakes for over 5 years. (from 1970-1976) And then a few more during my 35 plus years of working in automotive field. When the booster goes out. The brake peddle comes to the top, and makes it very hard to stop the vehicle. Like there was no power assist. I really would appreciate help with this problem.

    I also did bench bleed the last master cylinder myself. I am going to try to bleed the vehicle again today. But I am pretty positive it's not a bleed problem. Can ABS do this? I sure wouldn't think so?

  • mythicmama May 25, 2009

    how do i check brake fluid in a 94 previa?

  • twkarlsson May 26, 2009

    Nope, I'm sorry. There is no air in the system. I bled it again today and no air. I bled it at every connection and or line (as per Publication No. 81-37014106 ). Dodge must of had plenty of problems to make this many changes in just a bleed procedure. And if it was air by some chance, it should have a spongy or low peddle, and it doesn't. It's a perfect peddle and performs flawlessly, except for once in about 50-100 brake applications. Also if it was another master cylinder problem, there wouldn't have to be air in there either. Fluid would, or could be bypassing internally, or it could also have a bad check valve. But its not very likely that three master cylinders would have a similar problem. Or that three mechanics, one who I know has done more brakes than most mechanics find two rebuilds and one new cylinder with a similar problem, and all of them not able to remove air from the system. Also if it were air, again the peddle should be low or spongy. And if it was by chance taking in air somewhere, it would get worse, and it doesn't. It would also spert air at some point while bleeding it.

    Anyway, I do appreciate your help. This is definitly a once in a lifetime problem, or a Dodge or Kelsey-Hayes proud moment or design.

  • twkarlsson May 26, 2009

    Re: I do appoligize ! You are right about air in the master cylinder. I would have said the same thing. But since I have been there as often as you. I know there is no air, or at least in the master cylinder. I changed the rating. It's not your fault I have a problem child like this. I will let you know when I find the problem. And of coarse I would still appreciate any other suggestions.



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The problem may be that the master cylinder needs to be bench bled,there is most likely air trapped in the piston of the master cylinder.The problem comes from the piston not being fully actuated when connected to the pedal assembly.A vacuum bleeder will generally pull it out.

Posted on May 25, 2009

  • George DeMore
    George DeMore May 25, 2009

    No ABS won't cause this,and I can tell you there is still air in the system a and most likely in the master cylinder thanks for the innaproprate rating sorry to say my solution was a alot closer than the other.


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I was going to say brake booster. but you had the problem after front brake hose broke. you still got air in system .what sequence or what brakes did you bleed first.

Posted on May 25, 2009

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The Kelsey-Hayes rear wheel antilock brake system was first used by Ford in 1987 on F series trucks, and was later added to the Ford Ranger, Bronco, Bronco II, Explorer, Aerostar and Econoline vans. Ford calls their version of Kelsey-Hayes EBC2 system "RABS" for Rear-wheel Antilock Brake System."
The GM RWAL version is found on '88 and later "C" and "K" full-size pickups, "S" and "T" series pickups, some "S" series Blazers, '89 and up Astro minivans, '90 to '92 "R" and "V" series light trucks and "G" series vans.
Dodge has also used the Kelsey-Hayes RWAL system since '89 on its "D" and "W" 150/350, Dakota and Ram pickups. Geo, Isuzu, Mazda, Nissan and Subaru have used the system since 1991.
Considering how many Ford, Chevy, GMC and Dodge trucks have the Kelsey-Hayes rear wheel antilock brake system, it's not surprising that a certain number of these vehicles would experience some kind of problem during their lifetime. NHTSA says there's no inherent defect in the system, so any failures that occur are the result of normal service conditions.
Pedal problems
One of the most unnerving failures that can occur with this system is the loss of pedal when braking. The problem may feel like a bad master cylinder, but it may not be the master cylinder. The real problem may be a bad Electro Hydraulic (EH) valve in the rear wheel antilock brake system.
If a small piece of dirt or rust gets into the unit, it may prevent the dump valve inside the EH valve from closing. The dump valve will then leak fluid into the accumulator when the brakes are applied. The misrouted fluid allows the pedal to drop, and the pedal may go all the way to the floor without applying the brakes. No ABS warning light or fault code will be found either because the limited diagnostics on this system can't tell if the dump valve is fully closed or not.
Wagner Brakes recommends the following procedure

You can find the rest of the explaination here:

Posted on Jun 03, 2009

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