Question about 2002 Mazda Protege

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Will go to neutral after releasing tcc with brake pedal

While driving in 4th gear with torque converter locked up if you touch the brake and unlock the converter and try to accekerate the trans freewheels like it is in neutral, no codes and seems to work fine except for that

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  • 47 Answers

Might have a clutch going out in it

Posted on May 16, 2009

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Car surging


Is the car equipped with the Automatic Transmission?
If so, read on.
Otherwise skip to the end and answer some questions.

POSSIBLE SCENARIO:
I have observed a condition where my car surges slightly when the torque-converter clutch (TCC) cycles between lock and unlock when driving on an uphill grade.
First some basics and history that will explain why the TCC is used.

Engine, Torque Converter, TCC, and Transmission relationship--
The TCC allows for a solid connection between the engine and transmission which allows the input to the transmission to rotate at the same speed as the engine.
Without a TCC, there is slippage between the engine and automatic transmission. The slippage is greatest at low engine RPM. That is what allows the engine to run with the automatic transmission in gear, like when you first shift into gear or stop at a stop sign. When the throttle pedal is depressed, the engine RPM begins to increase and the torque converter begins to slip less and less the more the engine RPM increases. The car moves. But even at cruising speeds the torque converter slips slightly. Engine RPM is greater than transmission input RPM, which is realized as slight decrease in fuel efficiency.
When acceleration is complete and a constant speed is being maintained, the engine power output is reduced to the point where the TCC can engage and eliminate any slippage between the engine and transmission. If the car has a tachometer the engagement of the TCC can be verified when a slight reduction in engine RPM observed without a corresponding change in vehicle speed.
One method used to test the operation of the TCC is as follows:
Find a flat section of road where it is safe to perform the test.
Reach a steady speed and keep the gas pedal depressed with one foot. While observing the tachometer (or listening for an increase in engine RPM), with the other foot depress the brake pedal enough to activate the break light switch but not enough to engage the brakes. When the brake light switch activates, the TCC receives a signal to disengage. With the gas pedal being held steady, release the brake pedal and the engine RPM should decrease when the TCC engages.
Old cars with Automatic Transmissions did not use a TCC. I believe the TCC was put in use in an attempt to increase fuel economy.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH SIMILAR SYMPTOMS
The condition that causes that issue on my car is this:
- A slight uphill grade increases the load on the engine.
The car tends to gradually slow and it is necessary to depress the gas pedal to maintain speed.
- Depressing the throttle pedal (manually, or automatically with cruise control engaged) signals the torque converter clutch to unlock when the load increases slightly. (A more drastic load increase would signal the Transmission to downshift to a lower gear.) The corresponding increase in engine RPM and output is enough to compensate for the reduction in speed. When the vehicle speed, engine RPM, and throttle position stabilize to the point that the TCC will engage and the engine RPM will reduce in correspondence with TCC engagement. Now, if the road conditions have not changed, power output is not enough to maintain vehicle speed. With the increased load caused by full engagement between engine and transmission, and the cycle (surging) repeats itself until the road conditions change.

Does that help?
If not:

QUESTIONS
Please define the symptoms.
What are the road conditions when the surge occurs? (A slight uphill grade?)
What is the frequency of the surge?
Does the engine power output have a noticeable surge?
Is there a speed change related to the surge?
Does the tachometer move up and down with little or no change in vehicle speed?
Are all instrument indication in the normal range?
What else has changed?

Good luck!

May 24, 2014 | Subaru Impreza WRX STi Cars & Trucks

1 Answer

2002 CADILLAC SEVILLE CANT PASS SMOG


P0507 Higher idle speed than expected partially stuck open thermostat engine running colder than normal raises idle speed. Small vacuum leak raises idle speed. sticking throttle cable holding throttle plate open.
P0741 Torque Converter Clutch system stuck off : Code conditions : No engine or transaxle system codes set, engine run time over 5 seconds , Throttle Fluid pressure switch not indicating Park/Neutral,TCC commanded On @ max duty cycle, throttle angle over 8% Trans fluid Temp input 68-248f Degrees not in fuel cut off, trans gear ratio indicates 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear delivered torque 32-150 ft lbs, the PCM detected a TCC slip value that was over the torque limits . most likely cause is bad tcc solenoid or torque converter itself. Trans shop can diagnose and repair

Jan 12, 2013 | 2002 Cadillac Seville

1 Answer

1998 jeep grand cherokee 4x4. have the p0740 code. have to start from neutral, then shifts faily well. May start fluttering and making noise, have to put back to N, then to D and once again will shift. ...


P0740 JEEP - Torque Converter Clutch Circuit
Symptoms
- Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)
- Transmission shift shock
- Vehicle may not shift into the highest gear

Possible causes
- Low transmission fluid level
- Dirty transmission fluid
- Faulty torque converter clutch solenoid valve
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve harness or connectors
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve circuit is open or shorted

When is the code detected?
Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) unlocked for 10 sec., ECM commands converter lock-up and did not record engine speed drop.

P0740 JEEP Description
The torque converter clutch solenoid valve is activated, with the gear in D4, by the Transmission Control Module (TCM) in response to signals sent from the vehicle speed and the Engine Control Module (ECM). Lock-up piston operation will then be controlled. When the torque converter clutch solenoid valve is activated, the torque converter lockup clutch will engage creating a 1 to 1 RPM ratio between the transmission input shaft and the rotational speed of the torque converter.

Lock-up operation, however, is prohibited when A/T fluid temperature is too low.

When the accelerator pedal is depressed (less than 2/8) in lock-up condition, the engine speed should not change abruptly. If there is a big jump in engine speed, there is no lock-up.

Mar 27, 2011 | 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4WD

1 Answer

How do i know if its my tcc solenoid and not the torque converter its self and will it affect the reverse


If the solenoid is stuck so the torque converter remains locked, the transmission will not be able to shift down and the engine may stall when you slow down from highway speed. This seems to be the most common problem with this part, and it shows up primarily in prolonged high-temperature running.

If you can get the vehicle into reverse with a locked torque converter, you may have to maintain a minimum speed to keep from stalling the engine - not a safe situation.

My experience with hanging TCC solenoids is that they usually release the clutch if they are allowed to cool for a few minutes, if they don't release when the engine stalls.

If the TCC is not locking the torque converter, there will be no difference in high-speed performance when you disconnect the TCC solenoid. If the TCC is working to this extent, disconnecting it will cause a lag in acceleration and loss of gas mileage in high gear. Unfortunately, this is not a completely definitive test; it does not rule out a malfunction in the torque converter clutch mechanism.

Jan 28, 2011 | 1999 Chevrolet Camaro

1 Answer

Transmission light on. Rpm go to 3000 when I'm doing 55mph.it not going into 4th gear (overdrive) what's wrong with my truck?


It seems as though your electronic "lock up" on the torque converter is not actuating. TCC lockup/Torque Converter Clutch lockup.

Oct 05, 2010 | 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab

3 Answers

Vehicle will not shift into overdrive after it gets hot it finally set code 741 tcc code whats that mean


"The PCM controls the torque converter clutch (TCC) solenoid valve pulse width modulation (PWM). The solenoid controls the hydraulic fluid for TCC apply and release. When the TCC is applied, the engine is coupled directly to the transmission through the TCC. The TCC slip speed should be near 0.

If the PCM detects high torque converter slip when the TCC is commanded ON, then DTC P0741 sets. DTC P0741 is a type B DTC.

Conditions for Running the DTC
• No TP DTCs P0121, P0122 or P0123.

• No VSS DTCs P0502 or P0503.

• No AT ISS DTCs P0716 or P0717.

• No TCC stuck ON DTC P0742.

• No IMS DTCs P1820, P1822, P1823 or P1825.

No TCC PWM solenoid valve DTC P1860.

• The engine run time is greater than 5 seconds.

• The time since the gear select lever change is greater than 6 seconds.

• The IMS indicates D2, D3 or D4.

• The transmission gear ratio indicates 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear.

• The transmission fluid temperature is 20-133°C (68-271°F).

• The TP angle is 10-50 percent.

• The engine torque is 43-215 N·m (32-159 lb ft).

• The TCC solenoid valve is commanded ON.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
TCC slip speed exceeds its limit for a given torque for 5 seconds.

Refer to Torque Converter Clutch Slip Speed .

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
• The PCM illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) during the second consecutive trip in which the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met.

• The PCM inhibits 4th gear if the transmission is in hot mode.

• The PCM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The PCM stores this information as Freeze Frame and Failure Records.

• The PCM stores DTC P0741 in PCM history during the second consecutive trip in which the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
• The PCM turns OFF the MIL during the third consecutive trip in which the diagnostic test runs and passes.

• A scan tool can clear the MIL/DTC.

• The PCM clears the DTC from PCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without an emission-related diagnostic fault occurring.

• The PCM cancels the DTC default actions when the ignition switch is OFF long enough in order to power down the PCM.


Apr 21, 2010 | 2001 Cadillac DeVille

1 Answer

Only runs in 1st and 2nd gear and reverse.


This is a fault mode in which the transmission either loses electrical power or the PCM deactivates all of the electronics. The transmission will default to max line pressure. The driver will have Reverse and 3rd, with manual 2nd available by putting the gearshift in 2 or 1 (doesn't matter). 1st, 4th, and TCC lockup will not be available. It will not hurt the car to drive it like this for short periods, but use manual 2nd to get the car moving, and be aware that the trans will generate more heat than normal while operating in limp-home mode due to increased torque converter slippage during 2nd gear starts and no lockup in 3rd gear.

Trans shifts into gear harshly, car feels sluggish off the line
, No 1st, 4th or TCC lockup available, Manual 2nd, 3rd and Reverse are only available gears, CEL is on: Transmission is either in limp-home mode or has lost electrical power. If there are lots of error codes in the PCM, check the under hood fuse that powers the transmission, and if it pops again, look for a short in that circuit like an O2 sensor harness touching exhaust. Otherwise, check PCM codes for a particular fault in the transmission causing the PCM to put it in limp-home mode.

No 1st or 4th available; trans shifts 2nd to 3rd by itself in D or OD and locks the converter : ShiftA solenoid failed. Easy fix in the pan. Or a wiring problem from PCM to trans.. or PCM.

Car goes into gear but feels very sluggish like the brakes are dragging, but it will roll easily (starts out in 4th gear), you manually shift to 2 to get it moving, once it's moving you put it back in OD and the car shifts 3rd to 4th on its own and locks the converter at the appropriate time: ShiftB solenoid failed: Easy fix in the pan. Or a wiring problem from PCM to trans.. or PCM.

Dec 14, 2009 | 2006 Hummer H3

1 Answer

1994 mazda cronos 2.00 v6 auto car idles ok drives ok but when i come to a stop it stalls in gear been atuo


This sounds like a problem with the torque converter lockup system. Usually the torque converter lockup solenoid is at fault in your condition. This solenoid usually locks up the torque convertor (which acts like a clutch in an automatic transmission) when you are driving at a certain speed, and unlocks it when you press the brake, and/or come to a stop. When a torque converter stays locked up, and you stop the vehicle, it acts like a vehicle with a manual transmission, if you bring the vehicle to a complete stop without applying the clutch pedal, the brakes stall the engine. Basically, if the torque converter can't unlock, even when you come to a stop, the engine is still locked to the transmission, and even when you apply the brakes, the torque converter doesn't slip and freewheel like it should, but instead stalls the engine.

May 07, 2009 | 1994 Mazda 626

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