Question about 2006 Dodge Neon

15 Answers

Replace neon 2.0 with a 2.4 enine. wont spark in start mode.

When you turn the key it just turns over with center coil wire hot. The delay timer that runs fuel and delays at the end is the time the coil fires spark. As a result the engine gets fuel ,cranks then fires the fuel after the key is released. The crank /cam /ground capacitor have all been replaced. Triple checked all wire conversions at the pcm plug ( reverse 2&3, move 7,13,16,17 injector wires) and timing belt. The old engine ran great except for the bad lower end issue. Fault codes at the dash are 12 and 55, battery removed and end of codes. Looked for ground issues none located yet. I'm sure the car is a female. I can usually figure things out. Women are still a mystery.

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  • 25 more comments 
  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    1999 neon

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Plugs were fine. engine ran before the swap. the spark is not happening during the cranking. it sparks when you release the key.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Does the PCM need a proper ground to it's outer box?

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    I have been over this PCM plug too many times. I think it's one wire not in place. Pulling this PCM plug over and over has me concerned something moved. It sends a spark when the key is released. I see the spark plug (gray ashy .032)) spark at that time.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Coil swap same condition. Spark after starter stops.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Starter OK

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    where is the speed sensor? Fault codes are 12 and 55 (battery removed and end of session)No 15 code but i'm open to looking.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    where is the body ground control module.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    If the body ground control module is a capacitor on the head drivers end I replaced it and checked the values the old was also fine.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Did not use light. No spark until you let the key go. Belt was triple checked.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Good bad or indifferent there is no spark. Timing and other issues should give me bad pops. This is a control problem. Nothing happens untill you let the key go from start to on. It seems to be in time with the delay you hear when the fuel pump runs and when you shut it off. In between no spark. So when you stop cranking a second later it fires the fuel wherever it is. intake,exhaust, tail etc.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Ground is my suspicion. But where?

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    Still suspect ground loss

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    I am not delaying the ignition. She is doing it all on her own. My point is this spark only occurs a second after you let the key go from crank to run or off.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    I called the junk yard and may get another PCM just for shits and grins.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    ?????

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    I have seen this low voltage condition you mention before. I have been on a 10amp charger and at times tried a 900amp jump pack. And at times together. No difference. The coil was changed and now I found another PCM unit it made no difference. Today the battery was up and the charger was on jump/boost. This after fire condition is happening regardless the key being in the on position or off. it is strictly a timed out issue. When it stops cranking in two seconds after it fires. This time laps I believe is a normal function. It is feeding from somewhere. If the coil fires in sequence This engine will start, even if the injectors are off sequence.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    1999 not 2006

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 16, 2009

    As I said earlier " WHERE IS THE BODY GROUND CONTROL MODULE ! "
    The diagrams are fuzzy. could you e mail them.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    This is the forth time I have asked for a specific answer and it's like I never asked. WHERE IS THE BODY GROUND MODULE you mentioned.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    Is this the porfessional paid answer?

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    Is this the professional paid answer?

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    hi sir,

    if you going to change your engine i prefer to advice you to select that can fit on your car or if you are planning to return back an old one check if all the important spare parts of the motor are still in good condition. In that case we will going to prevent any problem may occur in the end..

    let me ask you sir..?
    how was the last having a main checked up of your car.

    if you don't have any idea what are really happening in your car much better if you will let the auto mechanics to fix it..

    thanks,

    What kind of help is this? I asked four times where is the body ground control module YOU mention. The response is in jiberish english call a garage.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    Again(try#5) where is the body ground module YOU mentioned ?

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    Sorry , the timing belt is on the marks. I thought It too so the third check I removed all the covers and wheel to check it after it was cranked over and over and over.

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    posted on Feb 16, 2009
    Thanks for Trying (70)

    rockitman187
    rockitman187

    Rank:Guru Guru
    Rating: 85%, 285 votes
    The problem is the body ground control module.

    Where is it, Question asked 5 times

  • Dennis Gaebel
    Dennis Gaebel Feb 17, 2009

    To the real thinkers that offered thoughtful solutions thank you very much.

×

15 Answers

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  • Master
  • 2,559 Answers

The problem is the body ground control module.

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

  • 1 more comment 
  • Randy Hough
    Randy Hough Feb 16, 2009

    Here is the diagram.




  • Randy Hough
    Randy Hough Feb 17, 2009

    I can if you can give me an email address

  • Randy Hough
    Randy Hough Feb 17, 2009

    On the fuse box



    1. Disconnect the battery.
    2. Remove the under-dash panel (plastic cover panel, metal panel, and metal brace.) You will also need to disconnect the handle for the emergency brake.
    3. Remove three large screws holding fuse box in place (two on right and one on left.)
    4. Remove the electrical connections at the bottom of the BCM. Avoid breaking the plastic retaining clips if possible. To release the clips push in at the tip.
    5. You should now be able to pull the fuse box down a few inches, which is all you need.
    6. Remove the screws holding the BCM to the fuse box, two screws on the right and one on the left.
    7. Slide the BCM down and out to remove it from the back of the fuse box.

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  • Master
  • 15,935 Answers

I think Rocket is referring to the ECC - ECM, ECU or BCM??
Its the cars brain. (people in different countries call things different names).

You must swap the ECM from the 2.0L version with the 2.4L version. They are programmed to the particular vehicle. All signals sent and recieved are dedicated to respective ECMs.

You will continue to get errors because the ECM is not callibrated to the 2.4L engine you are swapping in. The resistance values for your cam/crank sensors are probably different, and the computer does not know how to translate the data sent in. T

he ECM uses position from cam and crank sensors to calculate when to fire. Yours is not getting that information.

Engine Control Computer Operation: An ECC (engine control computer), sometimes called the ECM (engine control module) or ECU (engine control unit), is a digital computer that's the brain of the engine control system. It receives information from various sensors and calculates what's required for proper engine operation based on the programs stored in memory. The computer uses these computations to control fuel delivery, timing and various emissions systems. The ECC calculates what's required to control the various actuators to achieve proper engine operation, maximum efficiency and performance.

Thanks for using FixYa - a FixYa rating is appreciated!!

Posted on Feb 17, 2009

  • blueextc3221
    blueextc3221 Feb 17, 2009

    It is located in one of 3 locations:



    Behind glovebox, P/S KickPanel, under front seat (D/S or P/S - Usually P/S)

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  • Master
  • 6,966 Answers

Hi and welcome to FixYa,

A few ideas you may want to consider:

  • almost always, PCM/ECU have multiple ground pins going to the connector as well as body ground of the unit itself;
  • check consistent IGN +12 when cranking at the PCM;
  • the injectors would have 1 pin with IGN +12 at all times when IGN switch is ON/RUN or cranking;
  • the injectors would have the other pin pulsating when cranking;
  • the ignition coil would have 1 pin with IGN +12 at all times when IGN switch is ON/RUN or cranking;
  • the ignition coil would have the other pin pulsating when cranking;
  • a test light would be preferable rather than a voltmeter (DVM/VOM).
Good luck and thank you for using FixYa.

Posted on Feb 17, 2009

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  • Master
  • 848 Answers

Hi
make sure you have correct spark plug gap is as 0.035......

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

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  • Dodge Master
  • 1,075 Answers

The one thing you have not talked about and in this case the most importent is the vehicles main brain ie the box that tells the vehicle what and how to perform i have came accross this problem before, if you have changed the engine you have to change the brain to suit the new engine and remember the numbers on the new brain has to match the new enginehope this helps.adrian

Posted on Feb 17, 2009

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  • Master
  • 5,138 Answers

Last truck i had fixed it was the timing belt.vechical would not start but would turn engine.

Posted on Feb 17, 2009

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  • 126 Answers

Sell this **** car if you are not able find the problem
thats the only thing you can do with your car
thankyou for using fixya

Posted on Feb 17, 2009

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  • Master
  • 5,158 Answers

Does that vehicle have an imobilizer... ?

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

  • 1 more comment 
  • Roberta Smith
    Roberta Smith Feb 16, 2009

    where did you get the codes... that system would be an odb2 system.... which generally would require a code reader



    Robert

  • Roberta Smith
    Roberta Smith Feb 17, 2009

    If this person means the engine control module... it is located on the drivers side firewall from the looks of the diagram that i have. it isn't the best drawing and if you still cannot locate it i will find a better diagram and post it here



    Robert

  • Roberta Smith
    Roberta Smith Feb 17, 2009

    I do understand your frustration... the bs crowd does make it hard to give you competent advice without confusion



    Take care



    Robert

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  • 142 Answers

Are you CERTAIN that the timing is correct? Have you checked it with a light?

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

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  • Master
  • 360 Answers

Swap out the coil

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

  • 1 more comment 
  • clarkco2002 Feb 16, 2009

    The starting system requires a large amount of the energy stored in the battery, if there is a poor connection in the ignition system, there may not be enough power available for the system to produce consistent spark, or any spark at all. I have seen this too many times, most will end up replacing may components that r not in need of replacement. In most cases the problem is either at the coil connections or internal to the coil, that is why I recommended the coil swap. Try this simple test, with a second vehicle, attempt to jump start the car, ensure the second vehicle is running and there is good connection of the jumper cables, if the car starts or has spark under the test conditions, then it is definitely a poor connection in the system or the battery has just enough power to crank the engine but not enough to provide spark, either way, this is one step closer to getting the car running.

  • clarkco2002 Feb 16, 2009

    What did you find when the jump start was attempted?

  • clarkco2002 Feb 17, 2009

    Bypass the existing grounding by attaching a jumper wire from the coil negative (-) to the battery negative (-) terminal. attempt to start the engine. if engine starts or if spark is present while cranking the engine, then a engine grounding strap will need to be added to the engine and tested again without the jumper wire. if the grounding strap corrects the spark problem and the engine will not start, THEN, timing and fuel will be the next issue to correct.

    clarkco


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  • Master
  • 3,614 Answers

DO Pull and read the spark plugs; look if its running "normal" or are there one, two or all fouled or burning hot.

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

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  • Dodge Master
  • 19,396 Answers

Fault codes are:

15- No vehicle speed sensor signal

22
- Engine coolant temp sensor out of range

Check the speed sensor sender connection on both sides, and check the temperature sensor wiring.

Remember to evaluate solutions.

Many thanks.

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

  • 1 more comment 
  • Ginko
    Ginko Feb 16, 2009

    On this page you also find a link to electrical schematics and the complete computer codes:

    Here wiring diagrams from website above: PAGE1 (110k) and PAGE2.(189K)

    Here also the link to Neon Forum


  • Ginko
    Ginko Feb 16, 2009



    Your error codes are 12 and 55 , that means that PCM and senders are fine (I read wrongly the codes before)
    If the PCM is not grounded you get errors 62 and 63,also pretty unusual that this is a bad PCM, but still possible.
    Ensure that this is not just a faulty ignition, use remote starters and jump wires to start ignition manually, and eventually replace ignition cylinder.

  • Ginko
    Ginko Feb 16, 2009

    I read codes wrongly, there is no problem on speed sensor.
    Vehicle speed sensor is mounted in transaxle, and sender goes from abs to ECM, and send to speedometer, but that is not your problem, or at least if that is the problem the ECM does not see it.

    Your ECM is just telling you that everything is fine, the most likely is that there is a problem and she does not see it.


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  • 153 Answers

Hi  did u check the starter

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

  • nicra7 Feb 16, 2009

    u might be just right 
    the car needs a full clean check from each and every small part

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  • Contributor
  • 544 Answers

Hi sir,

if you going to change your engine i prefer to advice you to select that can fit on your car or if you are planning to return back an old one check if all the important spare parts of the motor are still in good condition. In that case we will going to prevent any problem may occur in the end..

let me ask you sir..?
how was the last having a main checked up of your car.

if you don't have any idea what are really happening in your car much better if you will let the auto mechanics to fix it..

thanks,



Posted on Feb 17, 2009

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  • Dodge Master
  • 60,867 Answers

WHY ARE U DELAYING THE IGNITION SIGNAL????

Posted on Feb 16, 2009

  • yadayada
    yadayada Feb 16, 2009

    do u have a wiring diagram of this system, the ignition gets it 12 volt signal from the crank circuit of the ignition switch, have u tested that circuit? I have done this kind of work for 30 years, and u need to refer to a factory diagram to see what is going on with the crank circuit.

  • yadayada
    yadayada Feb 17, 2009

    we have no access to any manuals, also I am not a BS tech, I give useful info, it is based on generic experience from 30 years of dealer work on all kinds of new and old cars, u still need to get a factory wiring diagram, go to alldata.com and pay the fee to use the site's manuals for your car, it is money well spent. I also wanted to add that anything I said was just trying to point u in the right direction to fix or get the ness resources to fix your very strange problem.

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