Question about 2003 Mazda Protege

6 Answers

2003 Mazda Protoge 5 disk brake grab

This is a non-turbo, disks all around model with ABS. The problem is that the brakes randomly appear to have tightened to the point that I get hot rotors, sometimes to the extent of smoking as well as squealing. This has happened on and off with periods of up to a year between instances, since shortly after I purchased the vehicle new. It has happened primarily on the rear brakes regardless of the e-brake tension or the caliper set screws to either wheel, but infact never both at the same time. There is no indication of uneven wear on the pads, and I have assured that the caliper guide pins are reasonably lubricated and boots in good shape. The vehicle now has about 50 k on it and I have recently noticed that the passenger side front brake is often dragging now with accompanying unnecessary rotor heating after a short drive. One idea that I have heard is that the valves associated with the ABS system are misbehaving due to a spring problem or perhaps metal pieces left in the system at mfg. Anybody had and better yet, solved this problem?

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  • kvonderheydt Nov 17, 2008

    Thanks for the comment but I would really like to hear from somebody that has experienced the problem and knows the fix.

  • kvonderheydt Nov 17, 2008

    I replaced the driver side rotor the first time this happened because it became scored and glazed before I realized what was happening. I have never replaced a caliper but ws considering it until somebody told me about the possibility of an ABS problem causing the symptom. If it is an ABS problem, why would caliper replacement be the solution, assuming the caliper pins are lubed and the adjustment is ok (in the case of rear brake)?
    thanks

  • kvonderheydt Nov 18, 2008

    Thanks for your comment Wiz. I have done the easy stuff like pumping the air out of the brake syste m and making sure that the pads are in good shape. There has never been any sign of unusual pad wear.
    I would really like to hear more about specific ways that the ABS system could cause my symptoms and how to go about fixing it. It is one of those problems that I doubt most car mechanics will be able to sort out without me spending gobs of time and money on their improper diagnosis. Two questions: How should one go about flushing out the ABS module in case there is foreign matter stuck in it? How would one determine if there is an ABS valve problem and what can be done about it?
    Thanks for the help

  • kvonderheydt Nov 18, 2008

    While thanking all who have responded to my request for information, it would appear that some responders have not had the benefit of reading my initial query which I repeat below. TO clarify, at no time during the occurance of this problem has the ABS system engaged inappropriately. I am generally familiar with how it works and how to bleed brakes of air. The problem is that I dont know why the brakes, occasional display the problem cited below and that of course is what I would like to understand and fix.

    The vehicle is a 2003 Mazada Protege 5, non-turbo, disks all around model with ABS. The problem is that the brakes randomly appear to have tightened to the point that I get a hot rotor, sometimes to the extent of smoking as well as squealing. This has happened on and off with periods of up to a year between instances, since shortly after I purchased the vehicle new. It has happened primarily on the rear brakes regardless of the e-brake tension or the caliper set screws to either wheel, but infact never both at the same time. There is no indication of uneven wear on the pads, and I have assured that the caliper guide pins are reasonably lubricated and boots in good shape. The vehicle now has about 50 k on it and I have recently noticed that the passenger side front brake now often drags with accompanying mild rotor heating. One idea that I have heard is that the valves associated with the ABS system are misbehaving due to a spring problem or perhaps foreign material, metal filings of whatever, left in the system at mfg. Anybody had and better yet, solved this problem?

    Thanks to all who have tried to help

  • Brent Reynolds Dec 27, 2012

    Strange, I have this same problem - almost to the tee. I replaced both front calipers, all pads, and bled the brakes. Front passenger side brake drags. I suspect the adjustment of the brake pedal piston that pushes the master cyllinder. Any one know how to adjust that. The maintenance manual says that it takes a special tool and has to be done at the dealer. It looks like it is just a set screw with a bolt . Anyone have any experience with this?

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Well, since everybody else that jumped in here did not give you proper information, let me try.
Please clarify a few points:
You speak of the rear rotors getting hot, but you do not speak of the pads wearing out.
This leads me to believe that you have an issue with the park brake assembly internals.
I would think that the actual mechanism for the park brake is mis-adjusted, or it is acting upon the the rotor due to a mechanical issue. As I cannot see your problem, all can pose is my best advise. Regarding the front brake dragging, I would think that you have a caliper issue.

I would NOT bleed the brakes, I would NOT suspect the ABS, or any of the "valves", because you did not post an ABS light being on. This is simply a waste of time, and not your issue.

Best advice: Have the rear rotors removed completely. Inspect the actual park brake mechanism.
Repair/replace anyhing that may be bent, or damaged. Readjust the park brake.
Remove the front calipers, and check to see that the pistons slide in with minimal effort. If not, it would eb time to replace the caliper, assuming that the slides and the pins are all clean, and the pads are not seized in the caliper bracket, which can happen, and cause an overheat condition. Please feel free to comment back to me if you desire further info on this issue, I will be quite glad to help you, and i will NOT "Copy & Paste" useless information to you.

Posted on Nov 18, 2008

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Hey dude


Regarding ABS flushing technnique :-

Flushing the system is not a difficult job. There is equipment for a one-man bleeding job, but the good stuff is expensive and we have reservations about trying to use the low-cost alternatives (hose with a one-way valve, and manual vacuum pump are examples). A simpler, effective approach is to have a helper step on the brake pedal. If you can line up someone, the only equipment you need is:
•Ramps or jack and stands to raise the vehicle a few inches in front and back, so you have access to the bleeder valves. However, it's possible to reach them on some vehicles with the wheels on the ground.
•Piece of clear hose to fit on the bleeder valve.
•Tight-fitting wrench for the bleeder (like a tubing wrench). Don't use an ordinary open-end wrench.
•Spray can of automotive cleaning solvent and a spray can of penetrating oil.
•Turkey baster to draw fluid out of the reservoir. A baster costs under $1, so don't try to clean and reuse one from the kitchen.
•A pint container of brake fluid for an econobox, a quart for a larger car. The brake fluid may be labeled DOT 3 (minimum boiling point of 400 degrees F), DOT 4 (minimum boil of 450 degrees ) or even DOT 5.0 or 5.1 (500 degrees F). Your system contains DOT 3 or DOT 4. These two are fully compatible, so you can mix them without worry, and one of these is what you should use.


However,

If you wanna try all diff. techniques,
Read this\.


*********http://www.gadgetonline.com/BrakeFlush.htm************

To determine faulty Abs -----

ABS Fault Causes
It appears that most failures in the ABS system are caused by problems due to one or more of the four wheel sensors. The sensors are relatively low tech and very simple. They often consist of a coil and magnet which is placed close to a cog tooth wheel attached to the wheel hub. As the road wheel turns, the cog wheel disturbs the magnetic field around the coil, thereby generating current pulses in the coil as the cog teeth go by. The ABS processor counts the pulses and thereby knows the speed of each wheel. It uses the speed of each wheel to detect when the car is braking and which wheels are travelling at the wrong speed and are therefore slipping.
Possible causes of failure

  1. One of more of the sensors has a fault in the cable up to the ABS computer.
  2. One or more of the sensors is not working correctly because there are large amounts of dirt and possibly metal filings attached which are interfering with the gap between the sensor and the cog tooth reluctor ring on the wheel hub.
  3. One or more of the sensors has failed internally. This is either because of an internal fault due to impact or age, or because damp has got into the sensor. A broken one will need to be replaced, one with a damp problem may be recoverable.
  4. One or more of the sensors has aged enough for heat from the braking system to cause the sensor to read erratically.

**********TO DETERMINE *********************
  • Remove panel near steering col (under).
  • Diagnostic plug is near steering col. (4 pin square plug).
  • Ignition off.
  • Unplug 2 black wired plug.
  • Connect Yellow / Green wire to the Black wire.
  • Ignition on.
  • Codes come out as a series of flashes on the ABS warning lamp in the dashboard. ie X XX =12 XXX XXXXX = 35 You will probably get code 12 initially 3 times. This can be either start of code read or no fault found if it carries on with code 12.
Some of the codes
16 solenoid valve LH 17 solenoid valve RH 18 solenoid valve rear 19 valve relay 25 speed sensor 35 pump motor 37 stop light switch 39/41 n/s/f sensor 42/43 o/s/f sensor 44/45 n/s/r sensor 46/47 o/s/r sensor 48 supply voltage too low 55 control unit defective
ABS Fault Prevention
I have seen a report saying that you should not force the brake fluid back up into the system when changing brake pads on an ABS car. You should always allow the fluid to drain from the brake fluid nipple on the caliper using a brake fluid draining tool. If the fluid is pushed up into the system there could be dirt and burnt fluid particles pushed up into the ABS valve block. It has also been suggested that when draining, all the fluid should first be removed from the brake fluid top up tank and ensure that any dirt and dust are removed from the bottom of the tank.



Ba bye and take care....Keep smiling :)



Posted on Nov 18, 2008

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When wheel slip is detected during a brake application, the ABS enters antilock mode. During antilock braking, hydraulic pressure in the individual wheel circuits is controlled to prevent any wheel from slipping. A separate hydraulic line and specific solenoid valves are provided for each wheel. The ABS can decrease, hold, or increase hydraulic pressure to each wheel brake. The ABS cannot, however, increase hydraulic pressure above the amount which is transmitted by the master cylinder during braking. During antilock braking, a series of rapid pulsations is felt in the brake pedal. These pulsations are caused by the rapid changes in position of the individual solenoid valves as the hydraulic control module (HCU) responds to wheel speed sensor inputs and attempts to prevent wheel slip. These pedal pulsations are present only during antilock braking and stop when normal braking is resumed or when the vehicle comes to a stop. A ticking or popping noise may also be heard as the solenoid valves cycle rapidly. During antilock braking on dry pavement, intermittent chirping noises may be heard as the tires approach slipping. These noises and pedal pulsations are considered normal during antilock operation.Vehicles equipped with ABS may be stopped by applying normal force to the brake pedal. Brake pedal operation during normal braking is no different than that of previous non-ABS systems. Maintaining a constant force on the brake pedal provides the shortest stopping distance while maintaining vehicle stability.
The instrument panel cluster illuminates the ABS indicator when the following occurs: The electronic brake control module (HCU) detects a malfunction with the antilock brake system. The IPC performs the displays test at the start of each ignition cycle. The indicator illuminates for approximately 3 seconds..

TO bleed the abs system :

  1. The reservoir on the master cylinder must be at the MAX level mark at the start of the bleeding procedure and checked after bleeding each brake caliper. Add fluid as required.
  2. Make sure the brake fluid level in the reservoir is at the MAX level line.
  3. Slide a piece of clear plastic hose over the first bleed screw, and submerge the other end in a container of new brake fluid.
  4. Have someone slowly pump the brake pedal several times, then apply steady pressure.
  5. Bleed the hydraulic brake system in the following sequence:
    1. Right rear bleeder valve
    2. Left rear bleeder valve
    3. Right front bleeder valve
    4. Left front bleeder valve
  6. Repeat the procedure for each wheel in the until air bubbles no longer appear in the fluid.
  7. Refill the master cylinder reservoir to the MAX level line..
Good luck...

Posted on Nov 18, 2008

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Bleed the pipes at the side of the calipers, there may be an air lock, also check the brake pads themselves they may have to be replaced and the brake fluid
Check the brake disks too, this maybe because the previous owner may have let them ware down too much damaging them

regards

Posted on Nov 17, 2008

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I would definitely agree it has something to do with the ABS system. Have you had a professional mechanic look at it? There are several things you could try and do, replace calipers/rotors for one. Once I have more information I will try and assist you further.
Thanks,
Lee

Posted on Nov 17, 2008

  • Lee A.
    Lee A. Nov 17, 2008

    My first question is why didn't you have this serviced under the factory warranty while it was still covered. You had 3 years/ 50,000 miles and this was definitely an issue that would have been covered. A professional should have no problem diagnosing the problem. Either an ABS wheel speed sensor is bad, or it has to do with your master cylinder/ brake booster. Though this problem is quite difficult to diagnose exactly withouth working on the vehicle itself. I believe you should find this information helpful and if so please take a moment to accept and rate the solution accordingly.

    Thanks,
    lee

  • Lee A.
    Lee A. Nov 17, 2008

    I would also bleed all new fluid through to ensure its not a fluid issue or air in the lines.

    Thanks,
    lee

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It does sound like a problem with the abs valves or it could also be a there is a valve that keeps a slight ammount of pressure on the breaks after you take your foot off the pedal to keep them from rattling it could be failing and causing to much pressure but i dont remember what its called

Posted on Nov 17, 2008

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